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stay tuned for a special presentation of

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mac maloney's military x-file show the

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mystery of twa flight 800 accident

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terrorist attack or was it shot down by

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there are 1 000 ufo sightings reported

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around the world every month

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90 of these sightings can be explained

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but 10

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cannot

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officially and unofficially the us

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military has been investigating ufos

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since 1947.

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their top secret goal is to find out

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what's behind these unexplained

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sightings

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the pentagon classifies them as unusual

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airborne anomalies

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but a better term

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is x-files

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join us as we explore these unsolved

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cases ufo incidents that baffle even the

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u.s military this is mcmaloney's

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military x-files

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and now

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well good evening everyone and welcome

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to pack maloney's military x-file show

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here on the distant thunder radio

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network this is macaloni we're doing a

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special show tonight we're looking into

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the mystery of twa flight 800. uh this

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was an airplane that taken off from jfk

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airport on july 17 1996 heading to paris

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and then on to rome there were more than

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240 people on board

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and after it was uh around 15 000 feet

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it had only been in the air about 11

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minutes or so this thing suddenly blew

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up

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and um killed everyone on board crashed

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into the ocean many many witnesses many

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um

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airline pilot witnesses but also people

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on the ground people at the beaches

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people in air traffic control towers no

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one really knows what happened to this

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airplane this is pre-911 so it was uh

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though there were people who thought

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that it might have been a terrorist act

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there are people think that it might

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have been a an assassination attempt

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believe it or not

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but a lot of people think that the us

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navy actually shot this thing down by

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mistake and there's been a huge cover up

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that's what we're going to talk about

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tonight the mystery of twa 800 in the

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studio with us tonight the very famous

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won one is here oh mack

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also in a not so undisclosed location

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commander cobra is on board good evening

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gentlemen and uh also very special guest

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agent x is here with us hello mac agent

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x is someone who works for a company

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that works very closely with u.s

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intelligence agencies we're also going

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to be talking to switchblade steve ward

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who believe it or not tells us that

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there's a ufo angle connected to this

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we'll be talking to rob beckhausen of

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juarez boring about if this airliner was

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shot down by some kind of a weapon what

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kind of weapon

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could it be and also a special guest

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later on will be jack cashel who's

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written a book on this a very extensive

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books called twa 800 the crash the

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cover-up and the conspiracy he is

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probably the world's leading expert on

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what happened to twa 800. we don't know

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there's a lot of um theories out there

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conspiracy theories all kinds of

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theories as we say including ufo

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theories so sit back and listen for the

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next two hours and uh try to discover or

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try to think about what could have

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happened to this along with us we're

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going to be learning as you are learning

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so you're listening to mac morning's

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military exile show here

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on the distant thunder radio network

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special on twa flight 800 what happened

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to it listen to these commercials now

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and we'll be right back

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america has lost world war iii

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terrorists control the countryside

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air pirates rule our skies the united

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but just when it seems like freedom is a

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thing of the past a new hero emerges

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from the ashes a true american who

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stands up for what's right a fighter

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pilot who can defeat any foe anytime

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follow the adventures of hawk hunter the

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wingman as he fights to revive the idea

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of america through 17 action-packed

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books hunter battles all those who would

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tread on old glory in the air on the sea

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or on the ground his dream is to put the

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united states back together again or die

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trying

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for some of the greatest aerial action

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you'll ever experience

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strap in and hold on

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wingman by mac maloney now available for

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[Music]

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welcome back everyone to mcmillan's

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military exile show here on the distant

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thunder

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radio network this is mac maloney

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and we are doing a special tonight on

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the mystery of twa flight

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800

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joining us on the phone as he does every

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week right now is rob beckhausen of war

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is boring how are you doing there

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tonight rob

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uh hey i'm pretty good okay we have a

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full house here tonight juan juan is

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with us commander cobra is here and also

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agent x is here

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and um we're just going to discuss what

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happened

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uh to

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uh twa-800 there's a lot of theories one

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of them is that it was shot down by

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our own government shot down maybe by a

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navy

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uh missile could you just you know fill

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us in if if something

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was shot at it what could it be how big

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of a weapon would it have to be to bring

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down a jumbo jet right so this is a

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really interesting question and um

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uh

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so there's been a lot of theories about

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what type of weapon

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uh could

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have you know brought down brought down

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the plane um and these range from you

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know even electromagnetic interference

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which uh the military has weaponized to

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you know really you know more

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radical

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super secret uh uh theories about ufos

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and and um but the most uh the one

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that's got the most traction is uh

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surface air missile

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so um

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so three years ago um you know six ntsb

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guys who worked on the

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uh investigation

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um came out and said that they believed

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a

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ntsb people

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yeah i mean and um yeah and that's

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that's what

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uh got a lot of attention and and um

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you know their their

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theory was that um you know so what kind

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of missile right so

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uh you know surface-to-air missile you

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have shoulder-fired missiles

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um we call them man pads um and then

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there's also the bigger anti-anti-air

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missiles that uh

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you know like the one that shot down the

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plane in over ukraine uh the one that

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down the iranian airlines flight from a

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u.s warship

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in the 80s the um

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so

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uh the man the the ntsb guys were not

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um

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really sure about the man pack i mean

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these are shorter range i mean the

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airplane was about 14 000 feet when it

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was hit

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um

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outside the range of some man pads but

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it's pushing it a bit

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um

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from my understanding also most man pads

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uh have impact fuses so when they hit

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the

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um

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uh the fbi ruled that out the ntsb guys

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were not sure about that but a proximity

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fuse warhead

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which explodes away from the aircraft

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perforating it with shrapnel or whatever

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right um

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uh this is what down the malaysian

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airline malaysia airlines flight over

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ukraine two years ago okay um that uh

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they they believe that was consistent

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with what they saw okay debris

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so a weapon like that obviously wouldn't

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be on a speedboat let's say i know some

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people said that terror they spotted

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people out in speedboats and they would

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have these you know kind of smaller man

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pack

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sams

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but we're talking about something that's

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a substantial weapon and would have to

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be

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on a ship or whatever

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yeah a warship i mean the u.s navy uses

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these on on board warships um you know

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very powerful very long range um

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uh proximity fuse

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uh missiles

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and um

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and so and and and also um

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you know occam's razor right this you

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know you you want a simple simpler

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theories or better no it's not a

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scientific rule you know the simplest

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theory is the conv is the accepted you

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know the official theory right that it

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was just an explosion in the field tank

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right um

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occam's razor is not a scientific law

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the simplest theory is not always the

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correct one you know but it's you know a

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general rule that well would terrorists

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have gone out on a boat

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you know to fire it when they could have

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just done it outside of an airport had a

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much

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greater chance of breaking down an

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airplane

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so we're talking about so this uh let's

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say it's a missile from uh navy

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destroyer let's say it's one of these

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proximity fuse missiles substantial

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warhead on this thing much bigger than

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like a stinger missile or something

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right

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oh yeah

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could a stinger missile

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shoot down a 747 i'm going to ask you

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first then i'm going to ask agent x

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uh it i think if you if you hit if you

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manage if you hit one yeah you could um

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now whether or not that would have

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caused the i'm not sure whether or not

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it caused the catastrophic

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damage that occurred that everyone saw

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in the night sky agent x stinger missile

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could it take down a 747 and cause like

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this huge fireball in the sky and stuff

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absolutely really yeah if what if you

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hit it just right type of thing it can't

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happen okay yes i'm not saying that's

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what happened but it could it could okay

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now would there be any difference in

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what the witnesses saw between a stinger

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missile hitting it and one of these you

282
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know large s stands that are fired from

283
00:11:33,829 --> 00:11:27,440
a

284
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:33,839
this like incredible explosion i'm not

285
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:35,200
just talking about people drinking on

286
00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:36,640
the beach i'm talking about other

287
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:38,160
airline pilots and everything they saw

288
00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:39,360
this is a

289
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:42,000
fantastic explosion part of the airplane

290
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,600
go start descending the other part

291
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:45,600
starts going down i mean you know i

292
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:47,120
understand stinger missiles could

293
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:49,440
disable a plane and eventually you know

294
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:51,839
cause it to crash but this seems like

295
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:53,920
this thing was hit by something or

296
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:55,279
whatever happened and it was like

297
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:57,200
destroyed immediately and debris came

298
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:58,720
down

299
00:12:02,949 --> 00:12:00,720
right back uh from commander corporal's

300
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:02,959
uh little uh cubby here listening to

301
00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:05,279
this the big difference that i find is

302
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:07,120
that the plume that was witnessed by so

303
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:09,440
many people sounds like a much larger

304
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:10,399
system

305
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,160
if indeed it is from the surface up to

306
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:14,480
the air uh the distances of people

307
00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:16,639
reporting seeing that uh

308
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:19,120
the flame and the smoke trail going up

309
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:22,720
right you don't see a a stinger or a

310
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:25,600
sa seven slash fourteen a strella

311
00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:27,360
showing that kind for anything like the

312
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,519
distance it goes away agent x is giving

313
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:31,360
a thumbs up on that agent x

314
00:12:35,509 --> 00:12:33,760
roger yeah um which is not

315
00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:35,519
impossible i mean i've seen

316
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:38,320
uh altitude you know ranges for man pads

317
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,160
going up higher than that okay but you

318
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:42,639
know it it's uh

319
00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:44,320
you know it's pretty high up for a

320
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:46,480
manpad i mean these are three miles

321
00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:48,880
that's the outer envelope

322
00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:49,519
yeah

323
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:51,279
right okay so it would have to be like

324
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:53,839
an exact freaking shot i don't know uh i

325
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:58,000
can show you pictures of sa7s and sa-7

326
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:00,880
variants being shot from a speedboat oh

327
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:02,560
really okay all right

328
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:03,519
um

329
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:06,160
okay so now a question for you rob let's

330
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:08,000
say it was terrorists okay now this is

331
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:11,360
all pre 911 this is 1996 but it's post

332
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:13,120
uh the first attack on the world trade

333
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:14,399
center so

334
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:15,760
uh you know terrorists were certainly

335
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:17,279
out there doing stuff they just hadn't

336
00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:20,320
done anything so spectacular as 911 why

337
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:22,560
then wouldn't the terrorist organization

338
00:13:26,069 --> 00:13:23,839
who did it why wouldn't they they've

339
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:26,079
been just bragging about it you know two

340
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:27,760
minutes after the plane

341
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:29,200
hit the ocean

342
00:13:33,750 --> 00:13:32,000
that's a good question

343
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:33,760
i don't know the answer you know see if

344
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:35,600
i if i knew who you know who was

345
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:38,079
responsible if somebody was responsible

346
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,680
for you know deliberately downing this

347
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:41,760
aircraft i won the field surprise right

348
00:13:45,190 --> 00:13:43,760
right right true but uh you'd be on your

349
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,200
own book tour and everything yeah i hope

350
00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:47,279
you thank us from the podium please i

351
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:53,590
but you know i mean i you know that's

352
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:55,279
you know there's so many

353
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:57,120
okay well so

354
00:14:01,350 --> 00:13:59,440
this is i i don't

355
00:14:04,389 --> 00:14:01,360
i tend to be skeptical of conspiracy

356
00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:04,399
theories you know you in general but you

357
00:14:07,829 --> 00:14:05,920
know there are

358
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,839
look i mean you know the when this it's

359
00:14:12,069 --> 00:14:09,279
pretty conclusive that the malaysian

360
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:12,079
airlines flight which was downed in 2014

361
00:14:15,829 --> 00:14:13,839
over ukraine was shot down by a russian

362
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:15,839
surface air missile right right well the

363
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:18,000
russian government has you know

364
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,079
completely covered you know denied this

365
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:22,480
and and is just

366
00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:23,519
you know

367
00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:24,320
uh

368
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:26,800
it's kind of gone away it's a lie lately

369
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:27,839
about

370
00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:32,240
have done this and will have covered it

371
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:34,320
up so it's sort of well

372
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:35,600
the other thing is that you know when

373
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:38,079
these ntsb guys came out

374
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:39,600
you know i was watching on it was on fox

375
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:41,120
it was hunt megan kelly right on fox

376
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:42,720
news uh the document the chief

377
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:45,120
documentary filmmaker who made this film

378
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:46,959
um he was laying out the evidence and

379
00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:47,680
the

380
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:48,560
uh

381
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:50,959
james carlstrom is the fbi director at

382
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:54,079
the time was on to respond and he just i

383
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:57,360
mean he just uh said oh you know what um

384
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:59,279
you know you ntsb guys if you had come

385
00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:00,560
out back then

386
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:01,920
you know with this with these we could

387
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:03,760
have gotten to the bottom of it if so

388
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:05,519
but if you but you just weren't man

389
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:07,199
enough and it just these ad hominem

390
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:08,320
attacks

391
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:10,320
bizarre and weird and

392
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:12,320
and just just uh just really just

393
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:14,079
straight that kind of behavior never

394
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:16,240
fuels a conspiracy right exactly if you

395
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:17,600
had brought up 10 years ago we could

396
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:18,880
have done something about it but we've

397
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:20,959
moved on to other things rob we're going

398
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:22,399
to ask you to hang in you know while we

399
00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:24,160
discuss this but let me just direct one

400
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:26,959
more question to you and is like

401
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:29,040
if let's say it was

402
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:30,959
a stray navy

403
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:33,440
sam missile which some people theorize

404
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:34,240
okay

405
00:15:37,350 --> 00:15:35,920
i mean stray meaning went off by

406
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:37,360
accident went off by action and there

407
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:39,040
was you know trying to hit something

408
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:41,519
else or whatever all right um

409
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:42,560
you know

410
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:44,000
do you think the government would have

411
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:45,839
been better off

412
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,240
just admitting it you know i mean

413
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:50,639
instead of of course maybe not now that

414
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,240
i've asked the question maybe the

415
00:15:55,749 --> 00:15:54,000
government can't get sued

416
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:55,759
it went away and people kind of believe

417
00:16:00,389 --> 00:15:58,480
this uh you know fuel tank vapors thing

418
00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:00,399
you know so um

419
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:02,160
i don't know so let me ask you robin

420
00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:04,000
once again hang in with us but you know

421
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:05,120
what do you think what do you think

422
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:06,480
happened

423
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:09,440
your first question is with the

424
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:11,120
government been better off i i mean i

425
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:12,480
think i think we as a country would have

426
00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:15,519
been better off if it was uh uh you know

427
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,759
a military exercise gone awry

428
00:16:21,749 --> 00:16:19,199
and i think we as a country would better

429
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,759
off um we'd be better off um i think if

430
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:23,279
you know this would have

431
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:25,920
uh what this was an uh this would have

432
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,560
uh cost clinton's reelection

433
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:30,800
you know that year um

434
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:33,519
agent x is sticking his thumb up in my

435
00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:34,639
eye

436
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:35,920
okay you know so i mean there would have

437
00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:37,120
been consequences for people in the

438
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,399
government if that happened and they

439
00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:40,639
covered it up and or or if they just

440
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:43,120
came openly disclosed it right i mean

441
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:44,480
their heads would have rolled right

442
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:45,759
that's true so it would be bad for some

443
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:47,920
people's careers certainly but um you

444
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:49,680
know if that was what happened and i

445
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:52,800
don't know um i'm not saying it was but

446
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:54,959
you know i think i think we as a

447
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:56,480
society would be better off of you know

448
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:57,600
our government as it wouldn't hide

449
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:59,360
things like that if they did if it was a

450
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:01,120
terrorist attack would they have covered

451
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:02,800
it up

452
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:04,959
why why would they well why did they

453
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:06,640
cover up the terrorist activity they

454
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:08,079
went out of benghazi because you don't

455
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:09,360
want to throw an election you said that

456
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:11,600
robert ah okay well now we're going down

457
00:17:14,069 --> 00:17:12,880
another stream

458
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:14,079
i don't want to no down on the street

459
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:16,079
you asked the question there uh captain

460
00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:17,280
where are you if i could see you i'd

461
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:19,679
take a swing at you where are you

462
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:21,600
from an undisclosed okay hey rob uh hang

463
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:23,520
in with us and you can be the referee

464
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:24,640
okay

465
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:26,240
rob beckhausen of war is boring we have

466
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:28,000
to plug juarez boring the best military

467
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,440
writing on

468
00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:31,919
the planet yep it really isn't it is

469
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:33,280
some really there's been some really

470
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:35,120
crazy stories man lately i just love

471
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:37,200
reading it i think agent x aren't you

472
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:38,559
the person who turned me on to that

473
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:40,480
agenda no

474
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:43,360
agent x i am jumping all over you mister

475
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,880
oh are you screwing are you kidding me

476
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,720
luckily you're in a uh undisclosed

477
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:48,400
location yeah and a straight jacket with

478
00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:50,320
only the ability to talk into the mic

479
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:51,200
perfect

480
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:52,240
well

481
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:53,760
is he in there okay

482
00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:57,039
all right okay um okay well um let's

483
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:58,880
let's talk about that

484
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:01,120
now for one second i just want to say

485
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:03,440
agent x

486
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:05,520
right on it okay

487
00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:07,840
okay so um let's forget about benghazi

488
00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:09,360
for a second let's just go back to

489
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:11,840
something that that rob just said

490
00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:14,320
if it was a terrorist attack okay and

491
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:16,080
and let's just factor out beyonce for a

492
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,840
minute if it was a terrorist attack on

493
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:19,520
the on the level of i mean you know

494
00:18:24,549 --> 00:18:22,320
killing more than 200 people

495
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:24,559
uh but there was no terrorist no

496
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:27,360
terrorist claimed responsibility for it

497
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,880
so doesn't that kind of tell you i mean

498
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:31,039
why commit a terrorist act if you don't

499
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:33,200
claim responsibility for it so therefore

500
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:35,039
maybe there's a good chance it wasn't

501
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:37,039
terrorism yes no

502
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:38,480
uh commander

503
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,880
well i'll jump in with this i don't

504
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:42,400
think it was a terrorist attack but i

505
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:44,240
can easily see

506
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:45,760
our government not wanting to

507
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:47,760
acknowledge a terrorist attack when we

508
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:49,760
said peace dividend

509
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:52,000
uh we cut military spending to the

510
00:18:58,150 --> 00:18:55,679
absolute bear we had a crap show that

511
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:58,160
ran into into bosnia when we did that we

512
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:00,160
were shooting missiles all over the all

513
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:03,039
over the world trying to get bin laden

514
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,480
when you run into election and you're

515
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:06,480
running as the peace guy the uniter of

516
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:08,400
the world tell me where we've heard this

517
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:10,880
before it happens about every 30 years i

518
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:13,360
easily see why we would say nothing's

519
00:19:17,110 --> 00:19:15,120
here maybe

520
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:17,120
maybe it's coercion by the government

521
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:18,480
that did it

522
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:20,400
to prove they could still pull it off

523
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:22,799
and in those days terrorism was not the

524
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:24,480
act that it is now they didn't get on

525
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:25,919
the internet they didn't pull all this

526
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:29,600
crap over to to to get

527
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:32,320
their cause on tv and quite frankly the

528
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:33,919
press didn't go along with it the press

529
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:36,320
was more you know not being on the side

530
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:38,960
of a lot of this crap now everything is

531
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:40,480
featured news

532
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:42,720
so i can easily see why

533
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:44,480
the temptation would be not to take it

534
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:45,840
on the chin all right i'm going to ask

535
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:48,400
juan one question because he was

536
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:50,320
in navy working with navy intelligence

537
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:53,360
right is that a correct uh yeah okay

538
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:56,400
sideway if it was a cover-up of a navy

539
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:58,400
missile being you know navy missile

540
00:20:01,830 --> 00:20:00,160
shooting this thing down

541
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:01,840
everybody on the ship

542
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:03,440
would know about it would know about it

543
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:05,039
and you we know how things are these

544
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:07,360
days i mean fire control technicians all

545
00:20:10,150 --> 00:20:09,280
the uh gunnery people right down to the

546
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:10,160
guy who

547
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:11,520
cooks the cabinets they wouldn't be able

548
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:13,280
to live their lives uh keeping that a

549
00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:15,600
secret right so why why haven't we heard

550
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:17,520
i mean we heard from the from the guys

551
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:19,520
who whacked bin laden sealed team six

552
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:21,200
was not supposed to talk about anything

553
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:22,640
two of them wrote books why would these

554
00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:24,240
guys in some you know destroy us

555
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:27,600
somewhere why would all of them clam up

556
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:29,600
uh they would have to be paid large sums

557
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:31,360
of money to all clam up and they'd still

558
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:32,799
be impossible to clam up yeah because

559
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:34,400
then you'd be claiming up above being

560
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:37,200
paid a large sum of money you know right

561
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:39,280
i mean so that no i mean it's impossible

562
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:40,480
it wouldn't have been possible yeah it's

563
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:43,600
impossible uh agent next do you agree

564
00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:45,440
i agree i

565
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:46,840
first of all i agree with the

566
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,440
geopolitical situation that

567
00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:51,360
rob

568
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:53,440
shop lowe's for hot summer savings on

569
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,760
all things outdoor make your patio a

570
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:57,600
happen in hangout for family and friends

571
00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:00,159
with up to 50 off select patio furniture

572
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,400
and outdoor decor and take care of those

573
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,480
uninvited weeds and get a free refill

574
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,480
with purchase of roundup or ortho home

575
00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:08,880
defense with comfort wand all projects

576
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:11,200
have a starting point start with lows

577
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:12,720
how do you offer valid while supplies

578
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:15,200
last refill offer valid 628-710 while

579
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:21,909
described at the time

580
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:22,880
and

581
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:26,080
secondly i i agree

582
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:27,440
that

583
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:29,760
you could not cover something up like

584
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:30,799
that

585
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:33,840
if it was a a real no kidding

586
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:37,600
naval military ship that did that

587
00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:40,159
i just think it was kinetic of one type

588
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:42,400
or another

589
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:45,039
but i'm not even going to speculate

590
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:46,000
about

591
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:50,000
who or what who or what did that so i'm

592
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:51,760
in violent agreement with the two last

593
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:53,520
speakers

594
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:56,480
all right commander go ahead

595
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:58,559
why do we think it had to be just the

596
00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:00,559
standard navy ship

597
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,240
we don't have anything that ever goes on

598
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,880
with other agencies that have their own

599
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:06,799
capabilities they have their own

600
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:09,039
aircraft or they control their own

601
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:10,799
aircraft and in the case we're going to

602
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:13,039
speak about tonight that agency which

603
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:14,960
has no jurisdiction within the united

604
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:16,960
states took a leading role in

605
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:18,960
controlling this investigation and that

606
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:21,840
was oh the clinton foundation some kind

607
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,200
of rogue agency no that rogue agency

608
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:27,120
that's your words not mine it's a

609
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:28,720
central intelligence okay well that

610
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:31,120
stepped in and took a major controlling

611
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:33,200
role in this investigation right and

612
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:34,960
rolled over everybody starting with the

613
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:37,760
fbi right and so the fundamentals

614
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:39,679
did none of these activities go on i'm

615
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:41,039
not even going to put agent x on the

616
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:42,240
spot

617
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:44,159
both of us have similar careers in a lot

618
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:45,919
of areas where a lot of these things go

619
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:49,360
on that i can easily see why we would

620
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:50,960
not want this up

621
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:53,039
especially in a presidency that is

622
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:54,400
preaching

623
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:57,520
the world is a better place and it's all

624
00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:59,919
peace right i can easily understand that

625
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:01,679
you know and the terrorism was not on

626
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:03,520
that on the par where they are today

627
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:05,280
okay um

628
00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:07,120
you know what you say i agree with you

629
00:23:10,149 --> 00:23:09,280
100 because i remember

630
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,159
you know

631
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:12,400
how this investigation dragged on and on

632
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:15,360
on its most expensive aircraft accident

633
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:16,720
investigation there were millions

634
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:18,320
millions of dollars they put the

635
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:20,240
freaking plane back together again in a

636
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:21,520
hangar somewhere

637
00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:23,120
and then all of a sudden

638
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,760
on uh either 60 minutes or something on

639
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:27,280
tv it might have been like the discovery

640
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:29,600
channel it's like here's the cia's

641
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:31,679
presentation of what happened i'm going

642
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:33,520
why would the cia be involved and they

643
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:36,720
had this elaborate uh animation of it

644
00:23:41,909 --> 00:23:39,039
they talk to people it was the most

645
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:41,919
in-depth thing you'd ever want to see

646
00:23:45,029 --> 00:23:43,679
but at the end of it you'd say

647
00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:45,039
man that isn't what happened that's

648
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:47,520
crazy you know that this once again this

649
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:49,039
kind of odd

650
00:23:55,270 --> 00:23:53,520
explanation that a a fully loaded 747

651
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:55,280
flying from new york

652
00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:58,080
to paris and then rome would take off

653
00:24:02,470 --> 00:23:59,120
without

654
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:02,480
gas in its you know big tank and then

655
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,559
you know uh there's vapors in there and

656
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:06,640
then there's uh you know a spark and so

657
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:08,000
on you know it's kind of like what rob

658
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,080
was saying it's not occam's razor it's

659
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:11,760
like yeah there's a lot of moving parts

660
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:12,559
to

661
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:14,640
buy that explanation you know

662
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:16,559
and and you put that together with the

663
00:24:19,669 --> 00:24:17,520
um

664
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,679
eyewitness information

665
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:22,080
i don't know it just doesn't seem to me

666
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:23,600
to be the explanation i don't know what

667
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:25,600
the explanation is obviously the only

668
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:26,799
people that bought it were the people

669
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:28,880
that did the video i guess yeah i mean

670
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:30,400
the video was spectacular i mean it

671
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,679
looked like something from a movie you

672
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,520
know and and you could tell boy there's

673
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:35,200
a lot of money spent on this thing

674
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:36,640
trying to convince people and it was

675
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:39,039
just this presentation that i don't know

676
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:40,320
didn't convince me but maybe it

677
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:42,159
convinced a lot of people because it's

678
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:43,360
gone away

679
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:45,200
it's going away it happened in 1996 and

680
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:46,559
then we had you know

681
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:48,880
911 and you know i guess that kind of

682
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:51,679
overshadowed it but yeah it's buried

683
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:54,480
right okay let's go on to uh one other

684
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,640
you know possible conspiracy okay and i

685
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:57,919
know this is a favorite of the

686
00:25:00,789 --> 00:24:59,360
commanders

687
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,799
and it's funny that i can't see him even

688
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:02,400
though he's just over there right is he

689
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:03,840
right yep he's right there okay all

690
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:04,799
right

691
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:08,080
um this idea that maybe that the reason

692
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:10,400
it was shot down by our government was

693
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,400
that there was somebody on board that

694
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:14,720
they wanted to terminate with

695
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:16,799
extreme prejudice that this was an

696
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,799
assassination

697
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:20,480
that took a lot of

698
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:22,240
innocent people with

699
00:25:25,909 --> 00:25:24,320
down with it now my question is is would

700
00:25:28,149 --> 00:25:25,919
the u.s government who can you know

701
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,159
barely get out of its way in a lot of

702
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:30,640
you know instances somalia and places

703
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:33,039
like that would they have their

704
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:36,400
act together enough to and would they be

705
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:39,760
cruel enough to shoot down a a

706
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:43,600
an airliner with 250 odd americans on it

707
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:45,360
just to kill one person

708
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:47,200
commander

709
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:49,760
okay let me back up just a tiny bit on

710
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:50,799
that

711
00:25:54,789 --> 00:25:53,120
what if it wasn't the target aircraft

712
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:54,799
what if it changed sequence before it

713
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:57,200
left the uh it's on takeoff and the

714
00:25:59,710 --> 00:25:58,640
aircraft they wanted to hit was in the

715
00:26:02,070 --> 00:25:59,720
wrong spot

716
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:02,080
kl-007 over korea when they flew the

717
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:03,840
wrong way the russians thought they had

718
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:07,520
caught a kc-135 correction on rc 135

719
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:10,400
and ended up taking down a 747

720
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:12,400
and you know world condemnation that was

721
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:14,880
during the reagan years so

722
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:16,720
does it necessarily mean

723
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:20,080
that we don't have uh a missed target

724
00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:21,120
and

725
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,720
who says it has to be a person could

726
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:24,480
have been something on board

727
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:26,799
could it be i there's a lot of reasons

728
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:29,600
that i can uneasily see people

729
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:31,520
uh who are not going to be directly

730
00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:33,840
affected in the shadows would say throw

731
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:36,080
the switch and do it i there's no

732
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:37,360
question in my mind about it's the

733
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:39,039
number one thing that we talk about it's

734
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:40,559
probably the greatest energy behind all

735
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:43,520
conspiracies because we know how dark

736
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:45,679
and how poor a decision can be made from

737
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:47,279
time to time but commander what about

738
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,720
all this collateral damage that we're

739
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:50,559
always so concerned about

740
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:52,960
i mean that was a given that there'd be

741
00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:55,039
a ton of collateral damage they didn't

742
00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:57,120
give a rat's behind about that

743
00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:00,799
i i can easily see someone convincing

744
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:02,960
people at the highest levels of power

745
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:04,480
look at how we started our involvement

746
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:07,039
in vietnam and the carnage that that

747
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,039
extended there we had the medic

748
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,440
supposedly attacked and we know today

749
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,440
that that is a falsehood

750
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:15,200
we know it's a complete fault we don't

751
00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:17,840
talk about that anymore

752
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:19,840
okay so let's say you know it was an

753
00:27:25,669 --> 00:27:22,720
assassination attempt and um

754
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:25,679
and it would just seem to

755
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:27,360
reason and we talked about this earlier

756
00:27:29,669 --> 00:27:28,480
off there

757
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:29,679
um

758
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:32,960
that someone would go through the

759
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,200
manifest of whoever was on that plane

760
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:37,600
and look at every single person who was

761
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:39,679
on that plane and think

762
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:41,039
why would the u.s government want to

763
00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:42,559
kill this guy why would they want to

764
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:44,480
kill that guy

765
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:46,000
you know it just seems like there's an

766
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:47,760
easier way to do it you know what i mean

767
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,360
i mean just uh

768
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:51,120
you know whack him under a street light

769
00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:52,480
some night or something like that why

770
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:54,559
would you take down a whole plane full

771
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,600
of innocent us citizens assuming it was

772
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,279
the plane

773
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:01,039
i i can't give you a good answer for

774
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:03,200
that mac but i do know

775
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:04,000
that

776
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:08,000
doing the right thing

777
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:10,240
we will make bad decisions

778
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:12,000
and that's happened a number of times

779
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:12,960
wow

780
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:14,000
um

781
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:16,399
rob beckhausen juar is boring any chance

782
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,480
i mean in your mind assassination

783
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:20,559
attempt any chance that that is what

784
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:21,840
might have happened

785
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:24,080
uh i don't buy it

786
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:26,240
okay i mean well i mean

787
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,600
look i mean the

788
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:29,039
does the us government assassinate

789
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:31,679
people yes

790
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:33,919
right i mean bin laden osama bin laden

791
00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:35,600
okay

792
00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:36,640
would it

793
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:38,000
you know is there easier are there

794
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:39,679
easier ways to assassinate people than

795
00:28:43,909 --> 00:28:42,480
taking out an airplane with them on it

796
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:43,919
yes

797
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:46,480
right so uh and and why why would you

798
00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:48,559
think oh boy okay now this is this is

799
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,919
going to work and we're not going to get

800
00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:51,600
caught and we've not left any you know

801
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:54,799
loose ends behind no no paper trail

802
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:56,480
you know it just seems like if someone's

803
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:58,000
sitting there saying oh we want to whack

804
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:00,559
this particular guy for whatever reason

805
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:02,559
and someone says you know let's do it in

806
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:04,000
a bar some night with a hooker with the

807
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:06,000
you know with the with the poisonous pin

808
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:06,799
or something

809
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:09,039
an operative playing as a hooker right

810
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:12,000
yeah instead of shooting

811
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:14,240
right you know can i can i add i mean

812
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:17,120
well does the military does the does the

813
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:19,279
us government is it willing to trade

814
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:22,240
civilian life for target

815
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:26,320
uh yeah you know and yes um depending on

816
00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:27,520
you know there are certain there are you

817
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:29,200
know factors that are that go into those

818
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:30,159
decisions

819
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:35,350
go ahead rob we only have to look back

820
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:37,039
to uh janet reno and the branch

821
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,600
davidians taking out david koresh yeah

822
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:40,799
well that that's

823
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:43,200
even even eisenhower i think wouldn't

824
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:45,039
have uh planned that kind of escapade

825
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:45,919
well

826
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:47,360
that's another

827
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:49,600
the movie 12 monkeys with the with the

828
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:51,200
virus is going to kill everybody on an

829
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:52,240
airplane

830
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:53,760
you know if you know if that you know if

831
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:55,919
there was a uh

832
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:57,360
you know if there was like a you know a

833
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:58,880
doomsday weapon

834
00:30:01,590 --> 00:30:00,559
was there a movie about this they're

835
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:01,600
going to shoot down the plane because

836
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,360
it's got a nuke on board you know yeah

837
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:05,520
there's been about five or five or six

838
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:06,240
years

839
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:08,640
i'm going to throw these agent x and i

840
00:30:12,389 --> 00:30:10,159
want you to get right on that microphone

841
00:30:14,789 --> 00:30:12,399
what a chance is up and down that this

842
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,799
was just some vast assassination attempt

843
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:16,320
by the u.s government

844
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:19,360
i think as somebody said that uh we we

845
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:22,080
will especially recently take out u.s

846
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:25,120
citizens but taking out alawaki and

847
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:26,960
yemen

848
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:29,760
is not the same as shooting down

849
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:35,360
at twa 800 in a manner that was so

850
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:36,880
blatant

851
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:37,760
and

852
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:41,760
just

853
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:43,840
it's the long way around the bond i'm

854
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:46,320
just not buying that either okay yeah we

855
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,240
never know notwithstanding

856
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:52,480
situation that rob described earlier

857
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:54,799
which was pretty bad at the time i'm not

858
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:57,440
buying that there's easier ways to do it

859
00:31:02,070 --> 00:31:00,080
precisely okay all right

860
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:02,080
rob beckhausen of war is boring thank

861
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:03,679
you for joining us for this discussion

862
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:05,200
tonight how's things down there in

863
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:06,399
dallas

864
00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:08,320
uh hey it's fine it's cooled off a bit

865
00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:09,840
so okay um

866
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:11,360
so

867
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:13,360
not too not too violent been to the gun

868
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:15,919
range lately

869
00:31:19,269 --> 00:31:18,000
uh not yet no okay we're still working

870
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:19,279
on that we're gonna have a special show

871
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:20,159
where

872
00:31:23,510 --> 00:31:21,919
rob is going to the gun range with the

873
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:23,520
gopro camera and he's gonna pick up

874
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:25,279
girls at the gun range we're convinced

875
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:27,039
one one and i can vote

876
00:31:31,510 --> 00:31:30,159
it's the perfect place to pick up women

877
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:31,520
it's primary

878
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:33,919
that in church agent x is giving me two

879
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:36,159
thumbs up saying i did that so you know

880
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:37,519
what what do we need

881
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:39,760
uh rob thanks for joining us tonight and

882
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:41,760
we will talk to you next week

883
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:44,000
hey thank you robin beckhausen why i was

884
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:46,480
boring the best military writing on the

885
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:49,039
internet bon non thanks for joining us

886
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:50,559
and uh why don't we take a break now

887
00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:52,000
you'll listen to mcmurray's military

888
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:53,840
x-files show special presentation that

889
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,480
disappears the mystery of twa

890
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:58,320
flight 800 what happened to it stay

891
00:32:02,389 --> 00:31:59,360
tuned

892
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:02,399
sky club tells the story of a space man

893
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:04,960
deserted on a far away world comforted

894
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:07,919
in his final days only by a music device

895
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:10,480
containing his favorite music to remind

896
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:11,679
him of home

897
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:15,360
take the children and yourself and hide

898
00:32:22,389 --> 00:32:18,159
out in the cellar

899
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:22,399
but now the fire will be closed at hand

900
00:32:33,460 --> 00:32:30,070
step on the stones

901
00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:33,470
flesh becomes water

902
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:39,200
[Music]

903
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:41,440
thousands of years later his remains are

904
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:43,840
discovered by an alien race and from his

905
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:46,320
belongings discover something called

906
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:47,360
music

907
00:33:01,830 --> 00:32:59,350
[Music]

908
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:01,840
sky club a self-titled cd with mac

909
00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:04,799
maloney contains these songs that gifted

910
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:19,190
[Music]

911
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:21,350
each cd comes with a lavishly

912
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:23,600
illustrated booklet chronicling the life

913
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:27,600
death and rebirth of the space traveler

914
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:30,799
a must-have for any music lover sky club

915
00:33:39,220 --> 00:33:33,919
with mac maloney available now at amazon

916
00:33:39,230 --> 00:34:09,109
[Music]

917
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:10,470
welcome back everyone it's matt maloney

918
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:12,159
military x-bowed show special

919
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:14,879
presentation the mystery of flight

920
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:18,079
800 twa flight 800

921
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:21,359
crashed off of long island in 1996 july

922
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:24,240
1996 in the studio with us tonight the

923
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:26,639
very famous won one is here oh mark

924
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:28,800
commander cobra is at an undisclosed

925
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:31,760
location good evening gentlemen also in

926
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:34,399
the studio very special guest agent

927
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:36,960
accessory agent x works for a company

928
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:40,000
that works for u.s intelligence agencies

929
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:41,760
he is here to tell us whether we are on

930
00:34:45,109 --> 00:34:43,760
the right track of the run track

931
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:45,119
as we discuss

932
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:47,760
the mystery of flight 800 twa flight

933
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:48,879
800.

934
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:51,280
welcome there uh agent x

935
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:54,079
hello mac okay good to hear you

936
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,040
uh

937
00:34:59,910 --> 00:34:57,119
and a nice big sound wave there that's

938
00:35:02,550 --> 00:34:59,920
uh inside radio talk on the line with us

939
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:02,560
as our field correspondent switchblade

940
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:04,480
steve ward up there in battle creek

941
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:05,760
michigan how you doing there tonight's

942
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:08,160
switch i'm doing really good that's good

943
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:09,280
okay now

944
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,079
kind of a different show tonight um

945
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:14,160
we've been talking about what happened

946
00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:17,920
to this uh jumbo jet that somehow

947
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:20,240
got destroyed obliterated over the

948
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:22,240
atlantic ocean right off the coast of

949
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:23,359
long island

950
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:25,680
back in july in 1996.

951
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:27,680
there's many many facets to this we've

952
00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:28,800
discussed

953
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:31,599
you know and a lot of people have um

954
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:33,760
conspiracy theories having to do with a

955
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:35,920
terrorist shot it down the u.s navy shot

956
00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:37,920
it down there was a bomb on board so on

957
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:40,400
and so forth but i was surprised

958
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:42,480
to learn that there's actually a ufo

959
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:43,599
connection

960
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:45,760
to the plane that was involved in this

961
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:47,359
correct

962
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:48,880
yeah uh

963
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:51,920
four days before the incident there was

964
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:55,119
a woman in the at atlantic highlands new

965
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:56,160
jersey

966
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:57,520
she and a couple other people reported

967
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:00,400
seeing a ufo just south of long island

968
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:03,119
kind of a classic ufo shape about 8 15

969
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:04,000
p.m

970
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:06,640
this was uh saturday july 13th

971
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:09,040
it uh it held stationary in the sky for

972
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:10,880
about 15 minutes

973
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:12,640
and uh

974
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:14,800
and that was really about it uh

975
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,599
it uh another actually followed it

976
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:19,760
a little bit later then it went into

977
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:21,680
some dark clouds and they didn't see

978
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:23,839
them anymore so it was kind of a very

979
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:27,119
typical ufo report uh it this may have

980
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:28,400
you know nothing to do with that the

981
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:29,920
particular incident

982
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:30,720
but

983
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,800
uh during the incident when the plane

984
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:34,240
did come down

985
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:36,400
uh there were some circular there was a

986
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:39,040
circular blip reported by air traffic

987
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:40,800
controllers

988
00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:43,520
and then uh but that and when cbs news

989
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:45,520
checked on it they that the pentagon

990
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:46,320
said

991
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:48,720
uh it had nothing to do with uh the

992
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:50,320
incident

993
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:53,440
and now i you know i'm hardly an expert

994
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:54,960
on this but i did hear an interesting

995
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:56,560
interview with james saunders and bill

996
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:58,400
byrne because of course you know james

997
00:37:02,470 --> 00:36:59,599
saunders is one of the original

998
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,480
investigators on this incident

999
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:03,920
and uh

1000
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:06,800
he said something about a that they use

1001
00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:09,119
some kind of a drone or something as

1002
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:11,359
like the original targeting device

1003
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:12,560
for

1004
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:14,320
uh some kind of a missile system they

1005
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:16,320
were testing okay

1006
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:19,440
and what had happened was the uh

1007
00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:22,560
again not the expert but flight 800

1008
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:24,880
was had actually been delayed because of

1009
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:27,200
connecting flight from chicago this was

1010
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:29,119
their flight 800 was going to head to

1011
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:30,160
paris

1012
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:33,280
uh the flight from chicago

1013
00:37:37,109 --> 00:37:34,240
uh

1014
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:37,119
was a little bit late so they delayed it

1015
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:38,880
and it actually took off a little bit

1016
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:39,920
later

1017
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:41,760
when it when it went up to a certain

1018
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:44,000
altitude it leveled off before it

1019
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:46,400
normally would have because of heavy air

1020
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:47,440
traffic

1021
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:50,720
so the i think saunders was implying was

1022
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:53,200
that it got into the area of a targeting

1023
00:37:57,589 --> 00:37:56,320
area and and his his theory is it had

1024
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:57,599
was a uh

1025
00:38:00,870 --> 00:38:00,079
an accident from the u.s navy

1026
00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:00,880
so

1027
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:04,640
accident none of this kind of

1028
00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:07,359
assassinated no no no big conspiracy

1029
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:09,359
just a a horrific

1030
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,720
accident

1031
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:12,880
what was that the cooperative engagement

1032
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:15,839
capability system

1033
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,400
and i you know again not being an expert

1034
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:20,960
but uh so anyway i'm i'm very it would

1035
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:23,760
very be very wary of uh you know making

1036
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:25,760
any you know sort of going way on the

1037
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:27,200
limb and saying any kind of an et

1038
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:30,320
connection right but people did see some

1039
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:32,480
unusual objects at the time that may

1040
00:38:36,870 --> 00:38:34,560
very well have been connected to some

1041
00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:36,880
kind of a test i mean that's kind of my

1042
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:38,800
wild guess i think there was there was

1043
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:42,160
also a story that um this plane um it

1044
00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:44,000
had quite a history it had bounced back

1045
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:46,160
and forth between twa eastern airlines

1046
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:48,480
and at one point it was owned by

1047
00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:50,640
apparently the iranian airline whatever

1048
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:52,960
that was and it was in the same area

1049
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:55,599
as as that famous dog fight that uh

1050
00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:58,960
iranian f-14s had with the ufo and

1051
00:39:02,310 --> 00:39:00,240
you know somehow or rather this plane

1052
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:02,320
was mixed up in that as well

1053
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:05,119
right it was i guess it was in the area

1054
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:08,640
it was what it was the the 153rd

1055
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:11,920
747 that boeing created

1056
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:14,000
they originally sold to eastern in the

1057
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:17,520
early 70s it was resold to twa

1058
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:18,800
they're the ones that sold it to the

1059
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:21,119
royal iranian air force

1060
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:23,119
and eventually it came back to twa so

1061
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:26,400
yeah it's a really absolutely bizarre

1062
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:28,720
history right this plane had i want to

1063
00:39:31,990 --> 00:39:29,599
ask

1064
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:32,000
the commander something um

1065
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:33,359
do

1066
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:38,400
they in constant communication with

1067
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:40,720
let's say military air traffic control

1068
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,520
very often uh you you're using you have

1069
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:45,680
to check in with civilian controllers

1070
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:47,280
when you're going in and out of a range

1071
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:50,960
there are active ranges or i should say

1072
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:52,960
choose my words carefully there's ranges

1073
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:55,280
all along the coastal united states from

1074
00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:56,720
maine all the way down to florida gulf

1075
00:40:01,990 --> 00:40:00,079
of mexico west coast around hawaii

1076
00:40:04,230 --> 00:40:02,000
the agency that owns that say the air

1077
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:04,240
force or dod would say it's going to go

1078
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:05,920
active from this altitude to this

1079
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:10,480
altitude very rarely do you shoot active

1080
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:11,599
missiles

1081
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:14,720
or shoot your guns from planes or some

1082
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:16,720
ships unless you have a really large

1083
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:18,400
block of air space going through there

1084
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:21,280
but it's not uncommon to have and this

1085
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:22,880
is really where the word drone comes

1086
00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:25,119
from we're talking about the

1087
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:26,240
90s

1088
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:27,680
this is not the kind of things that

1089
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:30,000
you're seeing on tv that are doing the

1090
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:32,720
uh the surveillance work and then have

1091
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:35,200
hellfire missiles these were

1092
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:36,800
usually a thing that looked like a very

1093
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:38,240
much like a jet aircraft that would go

1094
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:39,839
at high speed so that the ships could

1095
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:41,520
track them and you could make it

1096
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:43,040
maneuver and you could have it go

1097
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:44,880
through all the the sequences and then

1098
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:45,839
places

1099
00:40:49,510 --> 00:40:48,160
uh you can shoot from the surface up to

1100
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:49,520
the air to take

1101
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,640
down these these target drones would the

1102
00:40:56,550 --> 00:40:55,200
navy be you know carrying on an exercise

1103
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:56,560
like this on a

1104
00:41:01,030 --> 00:40:58,640
you know in an airspace where they know

1105
00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:01,040
airline is a con

1106
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:02,880
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1107
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1108
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1109
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1110
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1111
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1112
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1116
00:41:25,270 --> 00:41:23,839
starting point start with lows offer

1117
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:25,280
about seven five through seven seventeen

1118
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:26,800
selection varies by store while supplies

1119
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:29,370
last us only

1120
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:31,040
[Music]

1121
00:41:33,750 --> 00:41:31,920
simple

1122
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:33,760
circumstances that just doesn't happen

1123
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:35,680
occasionally you'll have planes stray

1124
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:38,560
into the area uh i've seen exercises

1125
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,240
where we've had to stop because a plane

1126
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:42,079
will be communications out they can't

1127
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:44,640
talk to it it's on its flight plan

1128
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:46,640
airliners are traveling on a on a type

1129
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:48,000
of flight plan that they go to a

1130
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:49,520
specific route

1131
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:51,680
and the the t the way you're taught is

1132
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:53,599
if you can't talk to anybody you fly the

1133
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:55,440
route that you were last cleared the

1134
00:41:58,870 --> 00:41:57,119
last point you were cleared and you have

1135
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:58,880
certain procedures to go through if

1136
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:01,200
someone strays into that area or even

1137
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:03,599
like a a small civilian airplane strays

1138
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:05,760
into that area it's all stopped the

1139
00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:07,839
signal comes out you can't you don't do

1140
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:10,400
any kind of maneuvers and really it's

1141
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:13,200
not for the the shooting of kinetic

1142
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:15,520
weapons as much as it most fighter

1143
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:17,760
aircraft will make very rapid altitude

1144
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:20,000
changes so when they're climbing and

1145
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:21,680
descending and turning and doing all

1146
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:23,280
those kinds of things that's the reason

1147
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:24,800
why they want that block of air space

1148
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:25,920
clear because they don't want to have

1149
00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:26,960
somebody

1150
00:42:30,309 --> 00:42:28,240
going through the middle of the opera

1151
00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:30,319
area right now you know one thing we

1152
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:37,349
my ride is here

1153
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:38,960
you know there was an airliner that was

1154
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:40,640
shot down by

1155
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:41,760
you know

1156
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:42,960
uh

1157
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:45,520
united states navy no well this is right

1158
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:47,839
right yeah the iranian ireland was shot

1159
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:49,520
down over the persian gulf by the united

1160
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:51,280
states navy they thought they were being

1161
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:52,720
attacked and there was a mistake we

1162
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:54,720
owned up to it but the russians shot

1163
00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:57,520
down flight double-oh-seven over you

1164
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,800
know it had strayed over russia and you

1165
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:02,480
know and they felt that they were i

1166
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:04,400
don't know under attack or whatever and

1167
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:06,800
they shot it down and

1168
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:09,359
they finally admitted it

1169
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:10,880
i don't i don't have any record them

1170
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:12,480
admitting it so i'm gonna have to call

1171
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:14,079
that one in contention they have

1172
00:43:19,109 --> 00:43:16,240
constantly said that it was uh shocked

1173
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:19,119
by the rebels uh and another reason why

1174
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:21,119
they should be taking over no no i mean

1175
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:23,920
uh flight double-oh-seven over kamchatka

1176
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:27,119
you know the korean airliner oh that was

1177
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,960
yeah yeah that was an air-to-air shot

1178
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:30,319
and i i think we've talked about that

1179
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:32,240
one in the past uh they were a little

1180
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:34,079
bit spoofed they thought they had caught

1181
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:36,240
one of our intelligence airplanes

1182
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:38,079
right which used to mimic when they when

1183
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:40,560
they kind of like mimic uh the flight of

1184
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:42,160
the airliners too yeah what they would

1185
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:44,079
do is they would fly a lot of times they

1186
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:46,000
would be blacked out and they would fly

1187
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:49,440
up behind you know the lit airliner and

1188
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:51,599
you know try to cloak out by flying that

1189
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:53,440
they'd fly the same routes and then they

1190
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:55,200
would use rapid descents to get away

1191
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:56,480
from it so that

1192
00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:58,480
um when the fighter would come up to

1193
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,280
intercept them he would close in on a on

1194
00:44:04,470 --> 00:44:03,280
a airliner and see the airliner and go

1195
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:04,480
well you know and then the other

1196
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:06,480
airplane is departed i mean that's

1197
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:08,240
that's fairly standard practice in the

1198
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:10,880
world of especially the cold war years

1199
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:13,680
uh the russians do the same then soviets

1200
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:16,079
do the same thing all the time

1201
00:44:20,710 --> 00:44:17,920
so these things do happen i mean you

1202
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:20,720
know airliners are shot down by

1203
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,200
generally we have a very tight finger on

1204
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:25,440
it the the the ones of that really fit

1205
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:27,520
this mold are the vincennes and the

1206
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:29,359
vincenz was tracking a lot of air

1207
00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:31,040
activity coming out of iran over the

1208
00:44:35,109 --> 00:44:32,480
persian gulf

1209
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:35,119
uh the defcon had changed there it was a

1210
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:37,520
bad call i think ultimately everyone

1211
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:39,599
realizes that the captain uh made a bad

1212
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:41,599
call when he made that shot but there

1213
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:43,839
was activity that was mimicking it and

1214
00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:46,400
it wasn't uncommon for uh the iranians

1215
00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:47,920
to fly profiles that looked like

1216
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:49,760
airliners to come up

1217
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:51,680
into that into that spot then you had

1218
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:54,000
the malaysian air right after the not

1219
00:44:58,069 --> 00:44:56,000
the one that disappeared it's still the

1220
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,079
big question flying over the ukraine

1221
00:45:02,230 --> 00:45:00,480
that was shot down and the russians

1222
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:02,240
their their fingerprints are all over

1223
00:45:06,230 --> 00:45:04,240
this one and they keep saying don't

1224
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:06,240
believe your lying eyes it was the

1225
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:08,560
rebels that did it

1226
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:12,400
well um did did they do it

1227
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:13,839
did the rebels were talking about their

1228
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:15,359
one one

1229
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,280
the malaysian one yeah they cut

1230
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:19,599
absolutely they dismantled the missile

1231
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,359
and they they trucked it back across the

1232
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:23,520
line they had invaded into uh that part

1233
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:26,560
of the ukraine and uh they they took it

1234
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:27,839
down and i think they took it down

1235
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:29,760
almost in an accidental

1236
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,200
mode i don't think they realized it was

1237
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,359
an airliner and their part of that claim

1238
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:35,280
was hey you flew the airplane into a

1239
00:45:39,990 --> 00:45:37,359
known combat area all this stuff's going

1240
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:40,000
on most aircraft will go around it

1241
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:42,480
these guys flew straight through it

1242
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:45,520
not an excuse for it to happen in any in

1243
00:45:50,309 --> 00:45:48,240
any stretch of the imagination

1244
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:50,319
yeah well i i didn't know that there was

1245
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:53,200
it was proven that they did it but uh

1246
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:55,200
it's all approval with a no

1247
00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:56,880
admission of guilt they have not stood

1248
00:46:01,510 --> 00:45:59,040
up and said they have done it and it's

1249
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:01,520
it's pretty obvious with all the what i

1250
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:03,040
would call circumstantial evidence

1251
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:04,960
that's come out into the world press

1252
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:06,720
about them moving the uh the

1253
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:09,280
surface-to-air missile around that i

1254
00:46:13,349 --> 00:46:11,760
think you can be rest assured that this

1255
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:13,359
that's how that one went down the

1256
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:15,839
descends we we owned up to that one this

1257
00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:19,599
one has a lot of of

1258
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:22,480
ahas on it that everyone is

1259
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:24,640
and and the way the investigation was

1260
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:28,319
closed screams conspiracy to have uh to

1261
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:30,079
have it the way it went to have the

1262
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:31,760
agency that took the lead on it that to

1263
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:33,920
make the cartoon up the simulation up to

1264
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:35,599
show what happened

1265
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:38,640
and then it just goes away and now

1266
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:40,640
more witness statements come out more

1267
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:43,680
research is done and we find ourselves

1268
00:46:47,829 --> 00:46:45,680
where we're at but i think the important

1269
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:47,839
thing that switchblade brings to this

1270
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:49,760
discussion tonight is

1271
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:51,920
is the discussion of

1272
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:54,240
these other drone activities that were

1273
00:46:58,950 --> 00:46:56,400
flying around not uncommon for that to

1274
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,960
go on it doesn't normally you can have

1275
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:01,040
uh training exercises going on all the

1276
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:02,560
time in fact

1277
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,480
i can give i can come up with a pretty

1278
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:06,480
good reason why the navy would shoot in

1279
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:08,319
a block of airspace or the air force or

1280
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:10,880
anybody else a targeting drone because

1281
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:12,319
the air traffic control is going to keep

1282
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,480
all the other traffic out of it and

1283
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:16,640
force the radar interception

1284
00:47:21,349 --> 00:47:19,040
officers to look at different pictures

1285
00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:21,359
and say okay which one is our target

1286
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:23,680
pick it out in a complex air environment

1287
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:25,119
with no intention of ever putting their

1288
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:27,680
finger on a trigger to arm a missile but

1289
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:29,440
you go through those drills all the time

1290
00:47:32,950 --> 00:47:31,599
you know that yeah you fight a fire like

1291
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:32,960
it's the end of your life you go to

1292
00:47:36,710 --> 00:47:35,280
battle stations it's almost like a video

1293
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:36,720
game except you're not you're not

1294
00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:38,160
actually pulling the trigger so you're

1295
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:39,680
saying that that they go through that

1296
00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:41,200
and then someone accidentally pushed the

1297
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:42,240
button

1298
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:44,000
i think that that's a strong possibility

1299
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:45,760
that that could have happened but the

1300
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:47,680
normal procedure to arm one of those

1301
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:49,359
missiles to put a standard missile

1302
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,119
online on a ship

1303
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:53,680
is about three steps down from a special

1304
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:55,680
weapon like a nuke i mean you just do

1305
00:48:02,069 --> 00:47:59,280
not do that yeah we shoot uh guns on on

1306
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:02,079
the range and what we go through before

1307
00:48:06,870 --> 00:48:04,400
you shoot out of a helicopter out of an

1308
00:48:08,550 --> 00:48:06,880
airplane on a surface-to-surface target

1309
00:48:10,390 --> 00:48:08,560
i mean you talk about this stuff and

1310
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,400
it's checked four ways to sunday right

1311
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:12,640
so to actually throw switches have all

1312
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:14,400
this thing going have a missile take off

1313
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:16,000
i just i can't see how that there's a

1314
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:18,079
lot of security handoffs before the

1315
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:19,760
trigger is actually pulled

1316
00:48:22,950 --> 00:48:22,160
some schmuck doesn't just press oops

1317
00:48:24,790 --> 00:48:22,960
right

1318
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:24,800
agent x please

1319
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:26,880
what do you think a couple of things a

1320
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:28,400
hundred percent right everybody that's

1321
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:30,800
been talking they've got a

1322
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:33,359
a term called weapons free

1323
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:35,680
and when you get that that means

1324
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:38,480
something significant and to do that in

1325
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:41,200
an area with active uh commercial

1326
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:43,200
aircraft would be unusual the other

1327
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:44,960
thing i just did want to mention about

1328
00:48:52,390 --> 00:48:49,829
is pretty interesting if you want to

1329
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:52,400
talk about conspiracies at the time

1330
00:48:57,270 --> 00:48:56,240
there was a senior u.s congressman

1331
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:57,280
who

1332
00:49:02,790 --> 00:48:59,599
if i remember correctly his name was

1333
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:02,800
larry mcdonald he was a very effective

1334
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:04,319
cold warrior

1335
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:07,599
against the soviets at the time he was

1336
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:11,040
on that aircraft really and

1337
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:13,280
i'm not saying i believe this but if the

1338
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:16,480
soviets did want to take somebody out

1339
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:18,960
he'd be the guy this guy would be one of

1340
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:22,319
their top folks doing that but i think

1341
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,839
even the soviets

1342
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:25,440
even then

1343
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:27,680
wouldn't do the collateral damage just

1344
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:30,319
like we talked about earlier but that's

1345
00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:32,480
an ongoing conspiracy theory that i

1346
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:34,480
think was it was pretty interesting at

1347
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:36,160
the time and i remember this guy

1348
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:38,400
mcdonald's it just seems like there are

1349
00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:40,480
easier ways to

1350
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:42,240
take out people you know than shooting

1351
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:43,680
down a whole airplane

1352
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:46,800
switchboard steve ward blade switchblade

1353
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:49,040
why do i call him switch i don't know it

1354
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,760
i'm

1355
00:49:52,870 --> 00:49:51,280
constantly calling oh because i have a

1356
00:49:54,390 --> 00:49:52,880
switchboard in front of me agent x well

1357
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:54,400
you know you know matt have been cashing

1358
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:55,839
checks for both uh switchblade and

1359
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:58,079
switch oh you can pay double double

1360
00:50:01,430 --> 00:50:00,079
dipping okay don't let the commander

1361
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:01,440
yeah yeah

1362
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:03,599
switchblade we have a listener who uh

1363
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:04,400
who

1364
00:50:07,829 --> 00:50:06,240
writes me on a regular basis loves your

1365
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,839
segment but would like you to be called

1366
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:09,359
switchboard from time to time and i

1367
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:11,760
think mack is finally falling under his

1368
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:19,430
switchblade thanks very much for joining

1369
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:21,760
us uh and adding to this discussion and

1370
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:23,359
we will talk to you next week my friend

1371
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:24,160
okay

1372
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:25,280
sounds good i think we should get

1373
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:26,960
switchblade a round of applause

1374
00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:29,200
definitely you're reporting

1375
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:31,680
thank you switch talk to you next week

1376
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:33,760
all right bye okay thank you switchblade

1377
00:50:36,870 --> 00:50:35,200
for that report and we're going to take

1378
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:36,880
a commercial break right now stay with

1379
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:39,359
us we'll be right back after this

1380
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:41,680
after the events of 9 11 we thought

1381
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,240
america would never be the same our

1382
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,480
homeland was attacked our fellow

1383
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:49,040
americans killed by terrorists it seemed

1384
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:51,839
like all hope was lost

1385
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,400
until a special group of patriots came

1386
00:50:59,990 --> 00:50:57,119
together and defied the pentagon and

1387
00:51:01,030 --> 00:51:00,000
vowed to take revenge but in their own

1388
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:01,040
way

1389
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:02,800
they took the battle to the terrorist

1390
00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:04,720
doorstep turning the tables on the

1391
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:07,599
murderers fighting with no rules taking

1392
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:09,680
no prisoners until they became

1393
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:12,559
terrorists themselves this is the story

1394
00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:15,440
of the super hawks soldiers so secret

1395
00:51:18,309 --> 00:51:16,960
even the president didn't know they

1396
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:18,319
existed

1397
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:20,480
their mission was to kill bin laden but

1398
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:22,720
they wound up saving the world

1399
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,440
super hawks a new series for kindles and

1400
00:51:28,830 --> 00:51:27,760
nooks by mac maloney available on

1401
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:28,840
amazon.com

1402
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:02,790
welcome back everyone to mcelonia's

1403
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:04,559
military exile show here on the distant

1404
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:05,680
thunder

1405
00:52:11,270 --> 00:52:08,400
radio network welcome to our special

1406
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:11,280
presentation on the mystery of

1407
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:13,839
twa flight 800

1408
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:16,079
which went down off of long island in

1409
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:19,680
1996 july 1996 20 years ago

1410
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:21,680
we're spending this uh two-hour special

1411
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:22,880
presentation

1412
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:24,559
talking about what happened what

1413
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:27,200
happened was it an accident was it a

1414
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:28,240
terrorist

1415
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:29,119
act

1416
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:30,800
did our own government shoot it down we

1417
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:32,720
don't know but

1418
00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:34,160
we're going to present a lot of evidence

1419
00:52:37,829 --> 00:52:35,680
and discussion tonight and maybe you can

1420
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:37,839
make up your own mind uh in the studio

1421
00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:39,440
with us tonight the very famous juan

1422
00:52:45,589 --> 00:52:42,640
juan is here hello mark also uh at his

1423
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:45,599
undisclosed location commander cobra

1424
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:47,280
gentleman in the house and also a very

1425
00:52:52,950 --> 00:52:49,200
special guest with us here right in the

1426
00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:52,960
studio agent x is with us to give us

1427
00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:54,400
thumbs up a thumbs down what we're

1428
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:55,760
talking about agent x works for a

1429
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:57,359
company that works

1430
00:53:01,829 --> 00:52:59,760
closely directly with us intelligence

1431
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:01,839
agencies here he is okay you want to say

1432
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:03,839
something there agent get right on that

1433
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:05,520
top of the evening top of the evening

1434
00:53:09,910 --> 00:53:06,960
he's uh

1435
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:09,920
very irish as we all are except uh juan

1436
00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:11,839
juan of course i'm part irish oh are you

1437
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:12,800
okay that's why i'm wearing this

1438
00:53:16,470 --> 00:53:15,280
collaboration oh he's oh wow come on i

1439
00:53:17,430 --> 00:53:16,480
thought you would give me the finger you

1440
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:17,440
have uh

1441
00:53:23,109 --> 00:53:20,800
look right hmx picked it right out on um

1442
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:23,119
well he doesn't miss he doesn't miss a

1443
00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:24,480
trick i know

1444
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:27,760
on the um phone with us tonight is um

1445
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:29,520
jack cashel who's somebody who has

1446
00:53:32,630 --> 00:53:30,720
written a book

1447
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:32,640
uh actually let's just uh you know call

1448
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:34,800
space bait he's uh recognized as the

1449
00:53:37,670 --> 00:53:36,400
number one expert on you know the

1450
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:37,680
situation

1451
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:41,200
the mystery of twa flight 800 jack is

1452
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:43,520
calling us from upstate new york how you

1453
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:45,119
doing there tonight jack

1454
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:47,040
i'm doing well gentlemen and uh i am of

1455
00:53:51,030 --> 00:53:49,520
irish descent as well so it's all right

1456
00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:51,040
okay a bunch of micks here are just

1457
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:52,400
hanging out

1458
00:53:58,870 --> 00:53:56,319
drinking which is right i've already

1459
00:54:00,470 --> 00:53:58,880
done that i'm just uh okay well so we so

1460
00:54:02,069 --> 00:54:00,480
that's all okay all right

1461
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:02,079
full disclosure

1462
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:04,079
okay jax the name of jack's book is tv

1463
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:05,920
twa 800

1464
00:54:10,630 --> 00:54:08,400
the crash the cover-up the conspiracy uh

1465
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:10,640
can be bought in all bookstores and on

1466
00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:13,040
amazon of course uh jack let me just ask

1467
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:15,119
you this um how long did it take you to

1468
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:16,720
write the book

1469
00:54:19,829 --> 00:54:18,319
well you know in a sense it took me

1470
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:19,839
about six months to write the book but

1471
00:54:23,910 --> 00:54:21,920
i've been working on this story for 16

1472
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:23,920
years and uh

1473
00:54:27,430 --> 00:54:26,000
so in i've been accumulating information

1474
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:27,440
over that time

1475
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:29,040
since i first got involved about four

1476
00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:31,040
years after the crash

1477
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:33,680
when i met a couple james and elizabeth

1478
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:35,920
sanders who had both been arrested for

1479
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:37,359
conspiracy

1480
00:54:43,109 --> 00:54:40,400
for james's role in investigating uh the

1481
00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:43,119
crash back in 1997. oh my goodness so

1482
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:45,040
it's a you know in fact when i met

1483
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:46,160
elizabeth

1484
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:48,640
who was a trainer for twa sweetest woman

1485
00:54:52,309 --> 00:54:50,000
on the planet

1486
00:54:53,829 --> 00:54:52,319
and she had her crime was to introduce

1487
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:53,839
her husband was an investigative

1488
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:55,040
reporter

1489
00:55:00,790 --> 00:54:59,119
to her his source who was a twa manager

1490
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:00,800
and pilot working inside the

1491
00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:02,079
investigation

1492
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:04,240
and for that introduction

1493
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:05,520
she was arrested and convicted of

1494
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:07,599
conspiracy in a federal court

1495
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:09,520
sentenced to three years of probation

1496
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:11,280
wow and when i heard her story i

1497
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:13,040
realized that you know maybe there's

1498
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:15,040
more here than meets the eye in in in

1499
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:17,200
who arrested the fbi

1500
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:19,440
fbi arrested they bragged about it

1501
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:20,640
um

1502
00:55:24,630 --> 00:55:22,559
and they uh tried them

1503
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:24,640
on an arcane law

1504
00:55:29,109 --> 00:55:26,640
that was designed to prevent scavengers

1505
00:55:31,750 --> 00:55:29,119
from stealing airplane parts

1506
00:55:34,790 --> 00:55:31,760
and what happened was their their source

1507
00:55:36,630 --> 00:55:34,800
who was a real straight arrow 747 pilot

1508
00:55:38,069 --> 00:55:36,640
who was convinced that there was a

1509
00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:38,079
conspiracy going on that's the first

1510
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:40,480
thing he told james sanders okay

1511
00:55:44,870 --> 00:55:42,400
was uh

1512
00:55:47,589 --> 00:55:44,880
sent them a pinch of foam rubber from a

1513
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:47,599
seat back and for that they tried them

1514
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,839
as scavengers unbelievable let me just

1515
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:52,000
ask you before we get into it um what is

1516
00:55:56,950 --> 00:55:54,319
your uh resume as far as this are you an

1517
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,960
author or are you an investigator i've

1518
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:58,720
in a way a background i have a phd from

1519
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:00,960
purdue university and

1520
00:56:04,789 --> 00:56:03,680
i have uh written um this is i believe

1521
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:04,799
my

1522
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:07,680
11th book of nonfiction i've done 10 uh

1523
00:56:11,829 --> 00:56:09,760
book tvs on c-span i may have the record

1524
00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:11,839
as far as i know all right cool

1525
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:13,520
i've written about um

1526
00:56:17,589 --> 00:56:15,119
i've also written for magazines in other

1527
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:17,599
places and i produced documentaries as

1528
00:56:22,150 --> 00:56:19,599
well

1529
00:56:24,069 --> 00:56:22,160
so uh in europe in uh erie near lake

1530
00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:24,079
erie new york uh yeah i'm unlike your

1531
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:25,839
near erie pennsylvania on the new york

1532
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:27,920
state side of the state line

1533
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:29,680
this is my hideout for the summer so no

1534
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:31,200
one could come find me so nice don't

1535
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:32,799
tell them my exact location okay don't

1536
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:35,440
worry about that so you know um earlier

1537
00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:37,119
in the show we've uh talked about

1538
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:38,799
different aspects of this we have talked

1539
00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:40,799
about we talked to someone who writes

1540
00:56:46,470 --> 00:56:42,640
about the military online whether this

1541
00:56:48,789 --> 00:56:46,480
was um a small stinger missile type um

1542
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:48,799
you know uh weapon that might have

1543
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:51,200
caused this thing to you know blow up uh

1544
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:53,760
was it a larger uh sand missile that

1545
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:56,240
might have come from the deck of a navy

1546
00:57:01,030 --> 00:56:59,520
ship uh was there a bomb on board was it

1547
00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:01,040
you know basically was it a terrorist

1548
00:57:04,870 --> 00:57:02,880
act or was it a mistake by the united

1549
00:57:06,789 --> 00:57:04,880
states government was it intentional by

1550
00:57:08,309 --> 00:57:06,799
the united states government we've even

1551
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:08,319
uncovered evidence that there was like

1552
00:57:14,069 --> 00:57:11,280
ufo connections to this airplane but you

1553
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:14,079
know uh we did all that as a preamble to

1554
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,640
having you on now you are the expert so

1555
00:57:19,829 --> 00:57:18,079
what we're going to do is we're going to

1556
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:19,839
have turn this over to commander cobra

1557
00:57:22,470 --> 00:57:21,359
he's going to ask you and you know

1558
00:57:24,069 --> 00:57:22,480
questions

1559
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:24,079
that you know i think all of us would

1560
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:25,680
ask you we'll be sitting in we'll be

1561
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:27,359
listening in i'm going to turn it over

1562
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:29,760
to commander cobra and let you two guys

1563
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:32,240
talk about you know what jack think

1564
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:33,920
really happened that night

1565
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:34,880
very good

1566
00:57:39,829 --> 00:57:37,599
thanks mac jack first of all thanks for

1567
00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:39,839
answering all the emails and the uh the

1568
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:41,440
chats and all the stuff to link up and

1569
00:57:44,870 --> 00:57:43,280
finally get us to work up i deeply

1570
00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:44,880
appreciate it one of the things i've

1571
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:46,240
been impressed on everything i've read

1572
00:57:49,910 --> 00:57:48,000
and i talk to you on a fairly frequent

1573
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:49,920
basis with the email when i see a new

1574
00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:51,040
posting on

1575
00:57:54,549 --> 00:57:53,119
online on one of your articles from the

1576
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:54,559
blogs and the and the different places

1577
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:57,680
you contribute you've taken a very uh

1578
00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:00,720
scientific approach uh to this so

1579
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:03,680
as we would say in the military briefing

1580
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:05,920
uh bottom line up first

1581
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:07,280
what do you think happened and then

1582
00:58:10,630 --> 00:58:08,960
we'll work backwards from there well i

1583
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:10,640
would say a commander with 100

1584
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:13,040
confidence that uh at least

1585
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:15,680
two i would say certainly one probably

1586
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:17,760
two surface-to-air missiles destroyed

1587
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:19,680
twa flight 800.

1588
00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:20,640
um

1589
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:22,960
and uh with that said

1590
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:25,760
uh i say with somewhat less confidence

1591
00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:28,880
i mean not a whole lot less maybe 95

1592
00:58:33,829 --> 00:58:31,760
98 confidence that the u.s navy was

1593
00:58:36,470 --> 00:58:33,839
almost assuredly involved

1594
00:58:38,309 --> 00:58:36,480
and if they were involved it was it was

1595
00:58:39,910 --> 00:58:38,319
an accident they didn't intend to shoot

1596
00:58:40,710 --> 00:58:39,920
it out of the sky

1597
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:40,720
okay

1598
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:42,319
uh we've talked a little bit before we

1599
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:45,119
got on air with you about the uh the

1600
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:47,520
difficulty for those things to line up

1601
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:49,040
to to occur

1602
00:58:53,589 --> 00:58:52,480
um when you what what actually motivated

1603
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:53,599
you to get into this case you talked

1604
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:56,160
about you met the uh the sanders right

1605
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:57,680
inside

1606
00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:59,839
and when i met them i was

1607
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:01,920
intrigued that someone like elizabeth

1608
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:03,520
could be arrested

1609
00:59:07,109 --> 00:59:05,599
you know and made to parade through a

1610
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:07,119
throng of reporters in an orange

1611
00:59:10,309 --> 00:59:09,359
jumpsuit she's a filipino woman she had

1612
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,319
been a

1613
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:12,319
a polynesian dance instructor very

1614
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:15,280
pretty lady sweet as can be

1615
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:17,440
and i said what is it that it could have

1616
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:19,760
been my sister or my mother or my

1617
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:22,160
daughter and i thought there may be more

1618
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:24,400
here than meets the eye i'm by nature

1619
00:59:28,549 --> 00:59:26,640
the opposite of a conspiracy theorist

1620
00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:28,559
and so i i met with the sanders and i

1621
00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,440
asked them if they wanted to do a

1622
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:31,520
documentary because there hadn't been

1623
00:59:34,870 --> 00:59:33,119
one done to that point this is four

1624
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:34,880
years after the fact

1625
00:59:40,789 --> 00:59:35,920
and then

1626
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:40,799
reading all the contrary information i

1627
00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:42,720
was still very skeptical

1628
00:59:46,630 --> 00:59:44,720
so they invited me to their home in

1629
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:46,640
florida and it was you know they were

1630
00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:48,480
both on probation at the time

1631
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:50,960
uh elizabeth had lost their job they're

1632
00:59:54,230 --> 00:59:52,640
scrambling for funds

1633
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:54,240
they're living on a

1634
00:59:58,870 --> 00:59:57,359
like a low-end florida condo hard by a a

1635
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:58,880
canal from which

1636
01:00:02,069 --> 01:00:00,559
like alligators emerge to eat

1637
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:02,079
neighborhood dogs and it's not a place

1638
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:04,079
you want to spend a lot of time

1639
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:05,680
and they showed me something though i

1640
01:00:08,309 --> 01:00:07,280
was totally unaware of four years after

1641
01:00:10,470 --> 01:00:08,319
the fact

1642
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:10,480
that was the witness statements right i

1643
01:00:14,230 --> 01:00:11,920
had been led to believe that there was

1644
01:00:15,990 --> 01:00:14,240
only a handful right a lot of

1645
01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:16,000
discreditation on all the different

1646
01:00:20,549 --> 01:00:17,599
witness statements

1647
01:00:22,870 --> 01:00:20,559
was just similarly suppressed for lack

1648
01:00:24,630 --> 01:00:22,880
of a better word right and i'm i follow

1649
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:24,640
the news i was shocked i didn't know

1650
01:00:28,309 --> 01:00:25,839
this

1651
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:28,319
but the ntsb someone

1652
01:00:31,109 --> 01:00:29,119
had

1653
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:31,119
furrowed it out of the ntsb i think

1654
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:33,119
probably by means illegal

1655
01:00:36,829 --> 01:00:35,440
the whole document of these witness

1656
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:36,839
statements

1657
01:00:41,109 --> 01:00:38,880
258 people

1658
01:00:43,109 --> 01:00:41,119
told the fbi that they had seen an

1659
01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:43,119
object streaking off the horizon

1660
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,720
attacking the plane

1661
01:00:50,789 --> 01:00:46,720
and these were military people

1662
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:50,799
helicopter pilots uh fishermen um people

1663
01:00:55,829 --> 01:00:53,440
who knew up from down and east from west

1664
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:55,839
you know who knew what uh you know what

1665
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:57,280
they were seeing

1666
01:01:01,829 --> 01:00:59,359
and when you read them one after another

1667
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:01,839
after another you realized two things

1668
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:04,240
one is they did see something and two is

1669
01:01:07,510 --> 01:01:05,920
that what they did see

1670
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:07,520
was thoroughly suppressed by the

1671
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:10,799
authorities in collusion with the media

1672
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:12,720
in particular the new york times

1673
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:15,040
jack before i have you lay out the case

1674
01:01:19,829 --> 01:01:18,079
uh and and take us through uh you know

1675
01:01:21,190 --> 01:01:19,839
basically the executive summary of what

1676
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:21,200
you put in the book and

1677
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:22,240
um

1678
01:02:16,710 --> 01:01:23,200
i

1679
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:16,720
more folks

1680
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:18,079
that i think are approaching maybe

1681
01:02:21,670 --> 01:02:19,920
retirement

1682
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:21,680
are seeing other things going on in the

1683
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:23,440
world that have contacted you through

1684
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:26,000
the internet and i'd like just a really

1685
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:28,799
a brief comment how that has been a

1686
01:02:33,030 --> 01:02:31,359
change in your

1687
01:02:35,030 --> 01:02:33,040
investigative approach the people that

1688
01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:35,040
are now coming and approaching you and

1689
01:02:38,549 --> 01:02:36,960
sifting through that information right

1690
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:38,559
that's an excellent question because you

1691
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:40,000
know the style of reporting today has

1692
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:42,160
changed i mean it used to be you sat in

1693
01:02:46,789 --> 01:02:44,640
a newsroom and you gathered information

1694
01:02:48,710 --> 01:02:46,799
you went out looking for sources now the

1695
01:02:51,030 --> 01:02:48,720
sources come to you right i don't have

1696
01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:51,040
the i don't have the the ability like a

1697
01:02:56,150 --> 01:02:53,920
news new york times uh reporter does to

1698
01:02:58,150 --> 01:02:56,160
pick up a phone and say hey jim calstrom

1699
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:58,160
is new york times we need you to call if

1700
01:03:02,150 --> 01:03:00,240
i say that to jim calstrom he is simply

1701
01:03:03,990 --> 01:03:02,160
going to ignore my call he was the head

1702
01:03:05,670 --> 01:03:04,000
of the fbi investigation

1703
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:05,680
however in the month or just a little

1704
01:03:09,270 --> 01:03:07,920
over a month since my book's been out i

1705
01:03:11,589 --> 01:03:09,280
probably heard from

1706
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:11,599
i'd say close to 100 people from within

1707
01:03:14,150 --> 01:03:12,960
the industry

1708
01:03:15,670 --> 01:03:14,160
several of whom worked on the

1709
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:15,680
investigation

1710
01:03:20,789 --> 01:03:17,920
at least a half a dozen of whom have

1711
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:20,799
really useful powerful inside

1712
01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:22,000
information

1713
01:03:25,109 --> 01:03:23,760
and i continue to get an average of one

1714
01:03:27,190 --> 01:03:25,119
or two a day

1715
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:27,200
and i i would invite anyone listening to

1716
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:28,559
the show commander

1717
01:03:33,029 --> 01:03:30,720
to go to my website it's casual.com

1718
01:03:34,470 --> 01:03:33,039
c-a-s-h-i-l-l.com

1719
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:34,480
and if you have information it'll tell

1720
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:36,880
you how to reach me and uh

1721
01:03:39,029 --> 01:03:38,000
like for instance i'll give you for

1722
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:39,039
instance

1723
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:40,720
i had known there was you know like i

1724
01:03:44,150 --> 01:03:42,480
talked to a lot of second-hand sources

1725
01:03:46,150 --> 01:03:44,160
about what the air traffic controllers

1726
01:03:49,349 --> 01:03:46,160
saw that night

1727
01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:49,359
at a trachon in on long island well

1728
01:03:54,870 --> 01:03:51,200
one of them contacted me we had several

1729
01:03:57,430 --> 01:03:54,880
exchanges he told me exactly what he saw

1730
01:03:59,990 --> 01:03:57,440
he saw an object he said vertically uh

1731
01:04:02,470 --> 01:04:00,000
intersecting tw 800 and the second

1732
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:02,480
before it disappeared from the screen

1733
01:04:06,230 --> 01:04:04,480
and people challenged him this is the

1734
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:06,240
interesting thing about the internet

1735
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:07,839
people challenge them saying

1736
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:08,880
you're a

1737
01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:10,960
you cannot see a vertical ascent on a on

1738
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:14,160
a on an air traffic control screen he

1739
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:15,920
said you may not be able to see it but

1740
01:04:19,910 --> 01:04:17,760
in my years in the military i learned to

1741
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:19,920
uh just distinguish what it looks like

1742
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:21,599
his supervisor had asked him he goes

1743
01:04:24,789 --> 01:04:23,039
what did we just see

1744
01:04:26,470 --> 01:04:24,799
and he said we saw

1745
01:04:28,630 --> 01:04:26,480
uh he goes

1746
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:28,640
the supervisor asked this controller

1747
01:04:32,150 --> 01:04:30,240
have you ever seen anything like this

1748
01:04:34,069 --> 01:04:32,160
before and he said yeah i was in the

1749
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:34,079
navy we did missile tests that's exactly

1750
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:35,520
what i was looking at

1751
01:04:40,789 --> 01:04:36,880
and

1752
01:04:42,950 --> 01:04:40,799
asked the supervisor can i review the

1753
01:04:43,829 --> 01:04:42,960
tape and the supervisor says nope it's

1754
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:43,839
gone

1755
01:04:47,190 --> 01:04:45,359
now by law

1756
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:47,200
that tape has to stay on site for

1757
01:04:50,150 --> 01:04:48,160
further

1758
01:04:53,109 --> 01:04:50,160
you know adjudication by the faa it was

1759
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:53,119
gone right but very unusual it was the

1760
01:04:57,910 --> 01:04:56,160
atc's the air traffic controllers who

1761
01:04:59,910 --> 01:04:57,920
set washington a buzz that night they

1762
01:05:01,510 --> 01:04:59,920
were the first ones to report in

1763
01:05:02,230 --> 01:05:01,520
long before the witness statements came

1764
01:05:04,710 --> 01:05:02,240
in

1765
01:05:07,750 --> 01:05:04,720
that alerted the white house that

1766
01:05:10,870 --> 01:05:09,190
very interesting uh where did he go

1767
01:05:12,230 --> 01:05:10,880
where did the tape go this is mac where

1768
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:12,240
did the tape go

1769
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:14,160
uh probably i i imagine the fbi

1770
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:16,799
confiscated he didn't know okay the fbi

1771
01:05:20,630 --> 01:05:18,559
confiscated an awful lot of stuff

1772
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:20,640
there's confiscated tapes in fact from

1773
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:22,720
all of the air control centers in that

1774
01:05:25,910 --> 01:05:23,760
area

1775
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:25,920
and as well as

1776
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:28,559
most critically perhaps

1777
01:05:35,670 --> 01:05:29,760
the

1778
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:35,680
that aired a few times on msnbc that

1779
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:36,480
evening

1780
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:38,559
and then was confiscated it was an

1781
01:05:42,390 --> 01:05:40,079
amateur video

1782
01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:42,400
and i've talked to 100 people who saw it

1783
01:05:47,270 --> 01:05:44,799
and my best source though is a fellow a

1784
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:47,280
747 pilot used to work at boeing and

1785
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:48,960
missile design

1786
01:05:52,950 --> 01:05:50,880
who was laid up in a hong kong hospital

1787
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:52,960
his wife came over to to stay with him

1788
01:05:56,549 --> 01:05:54,640
he had a back surgery

1789
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:56,559
and he watched that he said for several

1790
01:06:01,750 --> 01:05:59,280
weeks several times a day they didn't

1791
01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:01,760
confiscate it from the hong kong station

1792
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:04,799
he described in exquisite detail exactly

1793
01:06:09,029 --> 01:06:07,200
what the tape showed including you know

1794
01:06:10,390 --> 01:06:09,039
starting on the deck of a party

1795
01:06:13,349 --> 01:06:10,400
someone's saying oh look you know and

1796
01:06:16,069 --> 01:06:13,359
then they follow and track it i'd heard

1797
01:06:19,190 --> 01:06:16,079
that story 100 times this was the best

1798
01:06:21,430 --> 01:06:19,200
verification i have to have the same and

1799
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:21,440
nelson demille the best-selling novelist

1800
01:06:26,470 --> 01:06:23,039
was aware of it also because he built

1801
01:06:29,109 --> 01:06:26,480
his very uh readable novel nightfall

1802
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:29,119
around the missing tape

1803
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:33,520
uh jack one other uh quick uh question

1804
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:36,079
everything gets uh kind of suppressed

1805
01:06:40,390 --> 01:06:38,160
and then i remember mr schlesinger

1806
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:40,400
hopefully saying his name correctly

1807
01:06:43,670 --> 01:06:41,440
challenger

1808
01:06:47,029 --> 01:06:43,680
pierre sallinger allen he pops up in the

1809
01:06:49,829 --> 01:06:47,039
middle of all this right uh and he is

1810
01:06:51,990 --> 01:06:49,839
very quickly and summarily just uh you

1811
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:52,000
know dismissed as basically being a kook

1812
01:06:55,750 --> 01:06:53,599
right i mean we should say that he

1813
01:06:58,829 --> 01:06:55,760
humiliated internationally um right he

1814
01:07:00,230 --> 01:06:58,839
was jfk's pr guy he was jfk's press

1815
01:07:01,750 --> 01:07:00,240
secretary jonathan

1816
01:07:03,829 --> 01:07:01,760
right and those of us have been around

1817
01:07:05,109 --> 01:07:03,839
for a while know he was a legendary

1818
01:07:06,630 --> 01:07:05,119
figure right

1819
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:06,640
and then he was a u.s senator from

1820
01:07:11,109 --> 01:07:09,359
california right yeah but and the

1821
01:07:13,430 --> 01:07:11,119
message they sent

1822
01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:13,440
was uh if they can do this the pure

1823
01:07:16,390 --> 01:07:14,720
salinger

1824
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:16,400
lord only knows what they could do to me

1825
01:07:19,589 --> 01:07:18,000
right i've heard that from many many

1826
01:07:21,190 --> 01:07:19,599
people right and

1827
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:21,200
i've also talked to all the people in

1828
01:07:27,190 --> 01:07:23,760
the supply chain who got the information

1829
01:07:29,190 --> 01:07:27,200
to salinger it was good information

1830
01:07:30,950 --> 01:07:29,200
it was solid information

1831
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:30,960
the problem was that salinger was in a

1832
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:32,799
little over his head yeah he was kind of

1833
01:07:36,549 --> 01:07:34,799
almost like set up don't you think i

1834
01:07:39,589 --> 01:07:36,559
don't think he was set up

1835
01:07:42,789 --> 01:07:39,599
i think he uh he was um

1836
01:07:45,349 --> 01:07:42,799
he he got in to to to accuse the u.s

1837
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:45,359
navy of shooting down an airplane

1838
01:07:49,510 --> 01:07:48,160
you better know everything you know his

1839
01:07:52,069 --> 01:07:49,520
knowledge was a little too sketchy you

1840
01:07:53,750 --> 01:07:52,079
know too shallow his knowledge base was

1841
01:07:56,870 --> 01:07:53,760
not substantial enough to make the kind

1842
01:07:58,789 --> 01:07:56,880
of accusations he was making but i i've

1843
01:08:00,789 --> 01:07:58,799
talked to all the people in that chain

1844
01:08:02,150 --> 01:08:00,799
uh the one fellow uh jim holtzclaw and

1845
01:08:03,910 --> 01:08:02,160
they've signed after davis they'll tell

1846
01:08:05,270 --> 01:08:03,920
you this they got their information

1847
01:08:06,150 --> 01:08:05,280
straight from the air traffic control

1848
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:06,160
center

1849
01:08:10,230 --> 01:08:08,160
and then holtzclaw forwarded to a guy

1850
01:08:12,150 --> 01:08:10,240
named dick russell as a former eastern

1851
01:08:14,309 --> 01:08:12,160
airline united airline pilot

1852
01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:14,319
and then uh old school and then what

1853
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:16,319
russell did is he put it out among a

1854
01:08:20,550 --> 01:08:18,480
group of his friends and they made them

1855
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:20,560
promise that it would not go any further

1856
01:08:24,390 --> 01:08:23,199
this is on email in 96 email was still

1857
01:08:26,149 --> 01:08:24,400
pretty novel

1858
01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:26,159
and only about 10 of the american people

1859
01:08:29,749 --> 01:08:27,520
running the internet

1860
01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:29,759
somehow someone one of those guys leaked

1861
01:08:32,709 --> 01:08:31,199
it uh

1862
01:08:34,789 --> 01:08:32,719
french intelligence picked it up they

1863
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:34,799
got it to salinger who was living in

1864
01:08:38,789 --> 01:08:36,799
france at the time and um

1865
01:08:41,030 --> 01:08:38,799
and then salinger the good democrat that

1866
01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:41,040
he was waited until the day after

1867
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:43,120
election in november right i remember

1868
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:44,640
that distinctly that has a lot to do

1869
01:08:48,470 --> 01:08:46,480
with everything by the way and then he

1870
01:08:51,510 --> 01:08:48,480
released the information and then it

1871
01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:51,520
just pounced on him

1872
01:08:54,630 --> 01:08:53,279
interesting all right unless the

1873
01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:54,640
gentleman uh

1874
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:57,359
uh agent x mac and juan juan don't have

1875
01:09:00,789 --> 01:08:58,960
a particular question

1876
01:09:02,630 --> 01:09:00,799
well i have one question john now this

1877
01:09:03,829 --> 01:09:02,640
is juan juan

1878
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:03,839
uh

1879
01:09:06,470 --> 01:09:05,040
given the

1880
01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:06,480
threats that have been floating around a

1881
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:08,799
lot of the witnesses any direct threats

1882
01:09:13,510 --> 01:09:11,199
on your well-being john

1883
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:13,520
no and one one i'll tell you why is i

1884
01:09:17,189 --> 01:09:15,679
don't have first-hand information

1885
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:17,199
and every bit of information i have i

1886
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:18,880
put it online immediately okay and i'm

1887
01:09:22,550 --> 01:09:20,159
willing to share it with anyone who

1888
01:09:24,390 --> 01:09:22,560
wants to see it uh the people who have

1889
01:09:26,709 --> 01:09:24,400
reason to fear

1890
01:09:28,070 --> 01:09:26,719
are the people who know something

1891
01:09:30,149 --> 01:09:28,080
direct

1892
01:09:32,070 --> 01:09:30,159
and there and i would say in this case

1893
01:09:35,110 --> 01:09:32,080
that's probably fewer than a dozen

1894
01:09:38,550 --> 01:09:35,120
people who really know enough

1895
01:09:39,910 --> 01:09:38,560
to uh expose this case right this is a

1896
01:09:42,709 --> 01:09:39,920
mac i mean

1897
01:09:44,870 --> 01:09:42,719
in one sentence what is the case

1898
01:09:46,309 --> 01:09:44,880
the cases that the us navy uh

1899
01:09:47,110 --> 01:09:46,319
inadvertently

1900
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:47,120
shot

1901
01:09:53,269 --> 01:09:51,359
uh 747 out of sky killing 230 people the

1902
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:53,279
u.s navy would not have and could not

1903
01:09:58,630 --> 01:09:55,760
have covered this up on its own

1904
01:10:00,709 --> 01:09:58,640
the imposition the cia that night

1905
01:10:02,470 --> 01:10:00,719
by the white house suggested this the

1906
01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:02,480
cover-up came from the uh

1907
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:03,840
from the family quarters of the white

1908
01:10:07,590 --> 01:10:05,280
house and

1909
01:10:09,510 --> 01:10:07,600
although i'm sure the message that went

1910
01:10:11,910 --> 01:10:09,520
to the handful of people who knew what

1911
01:10:13,830 --> 01:10:11,920
they were doing was that this was an

1912
01:10:16,070 --> 01:10:13,840
uh and matter of the highest national

1913
01:10:17,669 --> 01:10:16,080
security the reality is it was a matter

1914
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:17,679
of getting bill clinton re-elected okay

1915
01:10:21,590 --> 01:10:19,280
but but let me just ask you this and we

1916
01:10:22,709 --> 01:10:21,600
talked about this before is um

1917
01:10:24,550 --> 01:10:22,719
[Music]

1918
01:10:26,310 --> 01:10:24,560
do we know what kind of a ship that the

1919
01:10:28,870 --> 01:10:26,320
missile came from

1920
01:10:30,550 --> 01:10:28,880
uh not for sure okay in the book what i

1921
01:10:33,350 --> 01:10:30,560
do is i pull short

1922
01:10:35,510 --> 01:10:33,360
of saying things for which i don't know

1923
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:35,520
enough to say with confidence but it's

1924
01:10:40,229 --> 01:10:37,520
it's it's something on the order of a

1925
01:10:41,669 --> 01:10:40,239
destroyer or whatever yeah okay it is uh

1926
01:10:44,149 --> 01:10:41,679
what was here's what we know was

1927
01:10:46,070 --> 01:10:44,159
happening that night uh there was a

1928
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:46,080
cooperative engagement capability going

1929
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:48,400
on exercise going on that night off the

1930
01:10:52,870 --> 01:10:50,880
south shore of long island we know this

1931
01:10:54,390 --> 01:10:52,880
i mean are the the evidence that should

1932
01:10:57,030 --> 01:10:54,400
have given us away immediately was the

1933
01:10:59,110 --> 01:10:57,040
fact that right above

1934
01:11:02,870 --> 01:10:59,120
about a mile above tw-800 when it

1935
01:11:05,270 --> 01:11:02,880
exploded was a navy p3 orion and the p3

1936
01:11:07,030 --> 01:11:05,280
is used in these uh missile tests to

1937
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:07,040
coordinate information among the

1938
01:11:11,510 --> 01:11:09,440
combatants that is the ships and subs

1939
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:11,520
involved right the navy is admitted to

1940
01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:12,880
having four

1941
01:11:17,669 --> 01:11:15,520
uh vessels in the immediate vicinity one

1942
01:11:20,709 --> 01:11:17,679
one destroyer and three uh one cruiser

1943
01:11:22,950 --> 01:11:20,719
rather and three submarines um

1944
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:22,960
however i i'm almost positive there's

1945
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:24,480
more involved

1946
01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:27,120
i think i know the names of one or two

1947
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:28,000
of them

1948
01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:30,239
uh however given the fact that i'm not

1949
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:31,360
certain

1950
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:32,640
it makes uh

1951
01:11:36,070 --> 01:11:35,040
i'm reluctant to go forward sure i have

1952
01:11:37,270 --> 01:11:36,080
however

1953
01:11:41,189 --> 01:11:37,280
heard from

1954
01:11:43,590 --> 01:11:41,199
uh one or two actually a high-level

1955
01:11:45,189 --> 01:11:43,600
naval people who are doing investigating

1956
01:11:46,709 --> 01:11:45,199
for me right now

1957
01:11:48,630 --> 01:11:46,719
let me ask you this though i mean let's

1958
01:11:50,550 --> 01:11:48,640
say it was a destroyer one one how many

1959
01:11:56,070 --> 01:11:50,560
people want to destroy these days uh i

1960
01:12:00,149 --> 01:11:58,070
we always know where every every ship is

1961
01:12:01,590 --> 01:12:00,159
deployed which ships report at any given

1962
01:12:03,430 --> 01:12:01,600
moment so as we talked about earlier

1963
01:12:05,910 --> 01:12:03,440
though let's say there was a mistaken

1964
01:12:07,430 --> 01:12:05,920
missile fire from a navy ship i mean

1965
01:12:09,030 --> 01:12:07,440
everyone on that ship would have known

1966
01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:09,040
about it are we saying that they've all

1967
01:12:13,110 --> 01:12:10,640
kept quiet as well or have you heard

1968
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:13,120
from any of them here's what they knew

1969
01:12:16,790 --> 01:12:14,880
is they knew that a missile was fired

1970
01:12:18,149 --> 01:12:16,800
everyone on board that ship

1971
01:12:20,470 --> 01:12:18,159
and i've talked to a couple of

1972
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:20,480
high-level naval people who who are you

1973
01:12:25,669 --> 01:12:22,800
know who believe what i'm saying but who

1974
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:25,679
uh confirm just what you're saying that

1975
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:27,760
is everyone on board that ship would

1976
01:12:31,830 --> 01:12:30,080
have known that a missile was fired

1977
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:31,840
but they would not have known at what

1978
01:12:36,950 --> 01:12:34,560
was what it was fired at where they were

1979
01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:36,960
with the outcome of the firing was

1980
01:12:39,910 --> 01:12:38,320
because they would do they do these

1981
01:12:41,430 --> 01:12:39,920
tests all the time

1982
01:12:43,830 --> 01:12:41,440
we know now that there are tests in

1983
01:12:46,470 --> 01:12:43,840
those waters on july 12th and july 7. we

1984
01:12:49,270 --> 01:12:46,480
have video of a july 12 test right off

1985
01:12:51,110 --> 01:12:49,280
the south coast of long island

1986
01:12:52,310 --> 01:12:51,120
so they they know that a missile is

1987
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:52,320
fired they could have been 100 miles

1988
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:53,520
away

1989
01:12:57,990 --> 01:12:56,400
the most interesting uh

1990
01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:58,000
fellow who i've spoken to and i talk

1991
01:13:01,910 --> 01:12:59,520
about him in the book i don't mention

1992
01:13:04,950 --> 01:13:01,920
his name just to protect him

1993
01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:04,960
but he was on a ship called the uss car

1994
01:13:10,070 --> 01:13:08,080
and his ship did not fire a missile but

1995
01:13:11,910 --> 01:13:10,080
he believes fully that his ship was

1996
01:13:14,229 --> 01:13:11,920
involved he knows the date he knows

1997
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:14,239
where they were and he knows also that

1998
01:13:18,229 --> 01:13:16,320
he was working in the combat information

1999
01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:18,239
center this it's a windowless room and

2000
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:19,440
it's probably

2001
01:13:22,149 --> 01:13:21,360
half a dozen people there

2002
01:13:24,310 --> 01:13:22,159
and

2003
01:13:27,350 --> 01:13:24,320
he described in detail the orders he got

2004
01:13:28,550 --> 01:13:27,360
to scrub everything right to erase

2005
01:13:30,870 --> 01:13:28,560
everything

2006
01:13:33,110 --> 01:13:30,880
and then he said they went to um

2007
01:13:34,709 --> 01:13:33,120
bermuda afterwards but they weren't

2008
01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:34,719
allowed to disembark

2009
01:13:40,390 --> 01:13:38,080
uh and then i checked the um the log

2010
01:13:41,990 --> 01:13:40,400
call when you say one one yeah that's

2011
01:13:43,270 --> 01:13:42,000
unusual port call to go to bermuda and

2012
01:13:45,350 --> 01:13:43,280
not get off the street and not get off

2013
01:13:47,270 --> 01:13:45,360
the ship that's cruel an unusual people

2014
01:13:49,270 --> 01:13:47,280
will be screaming about that

2015
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:49,280
that would be in the newspaper right i

2016
01:13:53,510 --> 01:13:51,280
mean but i have to go back to this whole

2017
01:13:55,350 --> 01:13:53,520
idea that you know um let's say we're on

2018
01:13:56,070 --> 01:13:55,360
a ship let's say there's 200 people on

2019
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:56,080
it

2020
01:13:59,910 --> 01:13:58,560
a missile goes off you know i mean no

2021
01:14:01,430 --> 01:13:59,920
matter whether you're in the combat

2022
01:14:03,189 --> 01:14:01,440
information center or whether you're the

2023
01:14:05,510 --> 01:14:03,199
cook you're going to know a missile has

2024
01:14:07,430 --> 01:14:05,520
just been shot off from your ship either

2025
01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:07,440
you've heard it or people are going to

2026
01:14:11,030 --> 01:14:08,880
tell you that you'll probably feel it

2027
01:14:12,790 --> 01:14:11,040
too you'll feel it so so let's say let's

2028
01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:12,800
say we'll know sure

2029
01:14:16,870 --> 01:14:15,120
so so we're saying that in this you know

2030
01:14:18,390 --> 01:14:16,880
conspiracy of everyone keeping quiet

2031
01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:18,400
just because clinton wants to get

2032
01:14:23,189 --> 01:14:21,280
reelected you have to shut up everybody

2033
01:14:24,870 --> 01:14:23,199
on that ship and shut up everybody in

2034
01:14:26,709 --> 01:14:24,880
there your investigation comes out and

2035
01:14:28,310 --> 01:14:26,719
says that the plane blew up because the

2036
01:14:29,510 --> 01:14:28,320
center tank wasn't filled and there was

2037
01:14:31,189 --> 01:14:29,520
a spark

2038
01:14:32,310 --> 01:14:31,199
and you know you've been part of an

2039
01:14:34,630 --> 01:14:32,320
exercise shooting missiles and you

2040
01:14:37,189 --> 01:14:34,640
haven't had hit any airplanes on on the

2041
01:14:38,709 --> 01:14:37,199
previous days going up to it you you

2042
01:14:40,709 --> 01:14:38,719
tell the crew look you don't talk about

2043
01:14:42,070 --> 01:14:40,719
this this is national well right

2044
01:14:43,510 --> 01:14:42,080
but that doesn't mean it didn't happen

2045
01:14:44,950 --> 01:14:43,520
and then the navy says we didn't do it

2046
01:14:46,550 --> 01:14:44,960
but that doesn't mean that these people

2047
01:14:48,149 --> 01:14:46,560
didn't know that it happened i mean you

2048
01:14:50,070 --> 01:14:48,159
know you're not going to want you're not

2049
01:14:51,189 --> 01:14:50,080
going to wipe their memories they're

2050
01:14:52,950 --> 01:14:51,199
going to know what happened they're

2051
01:14:54,550 --> 01:14:52,960
going to they're going to say something

2052
01:14:55,669 --> 01:14:54,560
to somebody they would contact people

2053
01:14:57,750 --> 01:14:55,679
like jack

2054
01:15:00,149 --> 01:14:57,760
well here's here's what i know is that

2055
01:15:03,510 --> 01:15:00,159
i've heard from at least 50 second-hand

2056
01:15:05,510 --> 01:15:03,520
sources someone told me right

2057
01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:05,520
i've only heard from i would say two

2058
01:15:07,910 --> 01:15:07,120
first-hand sources

2059
01:15:10,229 --> 01:15:07,920
now

2060
01:15:12,950 --> 01:15:10,239
the problem with the uh the first-hand

2061
01:15:14,229 --> 01:15:12,960
sources a is you know

2062
01:15:17,189 --> 01:15:14,239
where would they go with their

2063
01:15:18,310 --> 01:15:17,199
information no one wanted to hear this

2064
01:15:19,430 --> 01:15:18,320
you know they saw what happened to

2065
01:15:21,030 --> 01:15:19,440
salinger

2066
01:15:23,430 --> 01:15:21,040
another thing is this i talked to people

2067
01:15:25,750 --> 01:15:23,440
who've done missile tests who were

2068
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:25,760
involved in missile tests and they they

2069
01:15:32,950 --> 01:15:31,270
operations are always classified they

2070
01:15:35,270 --> 01:15:32,960
were always sworn to secrecy for missile

2071
01:15:37,590 --> 01:15:35,280
tests right and then finally you know

2072
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:37,600
the word i think the uh the current

2073
01:15:42,070 --> 01:15:40,320
english word for omerta the sicilian

2074
01:15:44,149 --> 01:15:42,080
word for silence yes

2075
01:15:45,990 --> 01:15:44,159
is pension

2076
01:15:47,430 --> 01:15:46,000
right i can't tell you

2077
01:15:49,110 --> 01:15:47,440
how many times i've heard the word

2078
01:15:50,630 --> 01:15:49,120
pension used right we hear that all the

2079
01:15:51,910 --> 01:15:50,640
time because we talk to you know

2080
01:15:54,149 --> 01:15:51,920
veterans people who are in the military

2081
01:15:55,590 --> 01:15:54,159
who saw ufos for instance you know right

2082
01:15:57,669 --> 01:15:55,600
they say my pe my pension has been

2083
01:15:59,990 --> 01:15:57,679
threatened but once again just just to

2084
01:16:01,830 --> 01:16:00,000
play devil's advocate and and i i have

2085
01:16:03,189 --> 01:16:01,840
to i've written books too i know what

2086
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:03,199
it's a pain in the neck to write a book

2087
01:16:06,709 --> 01:16:04,640
agent x has written a book you know what

2088
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:06,719
it's like sure you know you have to do a

2089
01:16:11,110 --> 01:16:09,120
lot of research in in you know you have

2090
01:16:13,590 --> 01:16:11,120
to do something that you believe in but

2091
01:16:15,430 --> 01:16:13,600
we live in a time where even the guys

2092
01:16:17,430 --> 01:16:15,440
and we said this earlier in the show

2093
01:16:19,110 --> 01:16:17,440
even the guys who whacked bin laden

2094
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:19,120
sealed team six these people who are not

2095
01:16:22,870 --> 01:16:21,120
supposed to talk about anything anytime

2096
01:16:24,870 --> 01:16:22,880
anywhere for the rest of their lives

2097
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:24,880
they've written books okay they've been

2098
01:16:30,070 --> 01:16:27,360
on tv they've got publicity they've got

2099
01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:30,080
paid for it so why wouldn't one person

2100
01:16:34,390 --> 01:16:32,320
on this ship that you know launch the

2101
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:34,400
missile by mistake or whatever you know

2102
01:16:37,830 --> 01:16:36,000
why wouldn't one of them come out why

2103
01:16:40,229 --> 01:16:37,840
wouldn't they get in touch with you

2104
01:16:41,910 --> 01:16:40,239
straight source not safe can they jump

2105
01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:41,920
in on mac here well let him answer it

2106
01:16:45,030 --> 01:16:43,679
first commander

2107
01:16:45,910 --> 01:16:45,040
first of all i'd say that's an excellent

2108
01:16:47,430 --> 01:16:45,920
question i

2109
01:16:49,430 --> 01:16:47,440
i fully

2110
01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:49,440
respect that question and i've had to

2111
01:16:53,750 --> 01:16:50,800
grapple with that

2112
01:16:55,510 --> 01:16:53,760
i would say this in 1996 about 10 of the

2113
01:16:57,189 --> 01:16:55,520
american people were on the internet so

2114
01:16:59,830 --> 01:16:57,199
there was not a natural place for them

2115
01:17:01,350 --> 01:16:59,840
to turn right now if the commander of

2116
01:17:02,709 --> 01:17:01,360
that ship walked into the new york times

2117
01:17:04,709 --> 01:17:02,719
newsroom they wouldn't want to talk to

2118
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:04,719
him

2119
01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:06,239
at that level to make a difference i

2120
01:17:09,350 --> 01:17:07,679
disagree i think if the commander of

2121
01:17:11,669 --> 01:17:09,360
that ship walked into the new york times

2122
01:17:13,270 --> 01:17:11,679
right now in the middle of this election

2123
01:17:15,430 --> 01:17:13,280
okay seeing because clinton's wife is

2124
01:17:16,870 --> 01:17:15,440
now running for president right they you

2125
01:17:18,310 --> 01:17:16,880
wouldn't see trump on the front page of

2126
01:17:19,189 --> 01:17:18,320
the new york times for three or four

2127
01:17:21,270 --> 01:17:19,199
days

2128
01:17:23,350 --> 01:17:21,280
now you're presuming much too much good

2129
01:17:24,550 --> 01:17:23,360
of the new york times well well then he

2130
01:17:25,910 --> 01:17:24,560
wouldn't go to the new york times he'd

2131
01:17:28,310 --> 01:17:25,920
go to the wall street journal which is

2132
01:17:31,030 --> 01:17:28,320
owned by fox you know he would go to he

2133
01:17:32,229 --> 01:17:31,040
would go on fox news you know he

2134
01:17:33,910 --> 01:17:32,239
wouldn't go to the you're right he

2135
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:33,920
wouldn't go to 60 minutes he wouldn't go

2136
01:17:37,030 --> 01:17:36,000
to the new york times

2137
01:17:39,030 --> 01:17:37,040
please here's the difference that i'm

2138
01:17:41,350 --> 01:17:39,040
going to give you mac on the bin laden

2139
01:17:43,350 --> 01:17:41,360
raid that was a positive thing that's

2140
01:17:44,950 --> 01:17:43,360
why people came out and talked about it

2141
01:17:46,390 --> 01:17:44,960
right they weren't supposed to talk

2142
01:17:49,189 --> 01:17:46,400
about it though they would they would

2143
01:17:50,790 --> 01:17:49,199
they were sworn to silence those guys

2144
01:17:52,870 --> 01:17:50,800
i'm not disagreeing with that but there

2145
01:17:54,790 --> 01:17:52,880
was some behavior that a lot of people

2146
01:17:57,030 --> 01:17:54,800
in the military saw the president do

2147
01:17:58,630 --> 01:17:57,040
post to that that generated them to go

2148
01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:58,640
forward on this i thought so you're

2149
01:18:02,630 --> 01:18:00,400
blaming obama for the fact that these

2150
01:18:05,510 --> 01:18:02,640
guys went out and cashed in on it

2151
01:18:08,070 --> 01:18:05,520
no i'm saying that the the difference in

2152
01:18:11,189 --> 01:18:08,080
our the two incidents are black and

2153
01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:11,199
white are are night and day in that you

2154
01:18:16,790 --> 01:18:14,800
have a tragic mistake that was made

2155
01:18:18,470 --> 01:18:16,800
and you did not have the same pervasive

2156
01:18:20,790 --> 01:18:18,480
environment where people can go out and

2157
01:18:23,430 --> 01:18:20,800
talk about it the way they do now right

2158
01:18:25,350 --> 01:18:23,440
and i am not justifying anything that

2159
01:18:27,350 --> 01:18:25,360
went on the bin laden right post by

2160
01:18:29,350 --> 01:18:27,360
these people talking about went on and

2161
01:18:31,669 --> 01:18:29,360
the the the kind of compromising of

2162
01:18:34,229 --> 01:18:31,679
security that goes on you do that but it

2163
01:18:37,270 --> 01:18:34,239
is very fashionable now to throw stuff

2164
01:18:38,709 --> 01:18:37,280
around we i mean a quick parallel to

2165
01:18:40,229 --> 01:18:38,719
that is the

2166
01:18:42,310 --> 01:18:40,239
the remarks that were made about seal

2167
01:18:44,229 --> 01:18:42,320
team six being involved in the bin laden

2168
01:18:46,550 --> 01:18:44,239
raid which led to the extortion one

2169
01:18:51,110 --> 01:18:46,560
seven going down in the valley

2170
01:18:52,390 --> 01:18:51,120
uh on on an age 47 in afghanistan right

2171
01:18:54,630 --> 01:18:52,400
that went on that

2172
01:18:56,870 --> 01:18:54,640
it's easy for me to see why

2173
01:18:59,830 --> 01:18:56,880
no one wants to talk about it and if you

2174
01:19:01,430 --> 01:18:59,840
didn't think your missile hit the uh

2175
01:19:03,590 --> 01:19:01,440
the airplane because it's part of an

2176
01:19:05,910 --> 01:19:03,600
exercise and then an official report

2177
01:19:07,990 --> 01:19:05,920
comes out with beautiful animated

2178
01:19:09,590 --> 01:19:08,000
footage that shows all this you're not

2179
01:19:11,910 --> 01:19:09,600
going to put two and two together and

2180
01:19:13,830 --> 01:19:11,920
the vast majority of people on a boat

2181
01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:13,840
don't know if it hit a target or didn't

2182
01:19:16,470 --> 01:19:15,040
i know but they know that they're in the

2183
01:19:17,510 --> 01:19:16,480
area at the time and they they must know

2184
01:19:18,709 --> 01:19:17,520
the theories i'll tell you we've got to

2185
01:19:20,390 --> 01:19:18,719
take a break

2186
01:19:22,390 --> 01:19:20,400
um you're listening to mac maloney's

2187
01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:22,400
military x-files show i can see his

2188
01:19:26,470 --> 01:19:23,760
picture there and it looks like the

2189
01:19:29,110 --> 01:19:26,480
steam coming out of his ears

2190
01:19:31,350 --> 01:19:29,120
anyway um for the audience that's me not

2191
01:19:33,110 --> 01:19:31,360
uh jack jack's the uh he's the modicum

2192
01:19:35,189 --> 01:19:33,120
of composure i'm the one that's ripping

2193
01:19:37,430 --> 01:19:35,199
out my straight jacket back here mean i

2194
01:19:39,510 --> 01:19:37,440
appreciate you not for the first time

2195
01:19:41,110 --> 01:19:39,520
um we're gonna take a commercial break

2196
01:19:42,390 --> 01:19:41,120
now uh you're listening to mac maloney's

2197
01:19:44,070 --> 01:19:42,400
military x-files show here on the

2198
01:19:46,790 --> 01:19:44,080
distant thunder network we're doing a

2199
01:19:49,590 --> 01:19:46,800
special show on the mystery of flight

2200
01:19:51,510 --> 01:19:49,600
800 twa flight 800 that went down off of

2201
01:19:53,510 --> 01:19:51,520
long island 20 years ago

2202
01:19:54,550 --> 01:19:53,520
so we'll be right back after this stay

2203
01:19:57,830 --> 01:19:54,560
tuned

2204
01:20:00,470 --> 01:19:57,840
america has lost world war iii

2205
01:20:03,030 --> 01:20:00,480
terrorists control the countryside

2206
01:20:09,110 --> 01:20:03,040
air pirates rule our skies

2207
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:11,350
but just when it seems like freedom is a

2208
01:20:16,390 --> 01:20:13,840
thing of the past a new hero emerges

2209
01:20:18,790 --> 01:20:16,400
from the ashes a true american who

2210
01:20:21,669 --> 01:20:18,800
stands up for what's right a fighter

2211
01:20:30,790 --> 01:20:21,679
pilot who can defeat any foe anytime

2212
01:20:35,910 --> 01:20:33,030
follow the adventures of hot hunter the

2213
01:20:38,470 --> 01:20:35,920
wingman as he fights to revive the idea

2214
01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:38,480
of america through 17 action-packed

2215
01:20:43,990 --> 01:20:40,880
books hunter battles all those who would

2216
01:20:46,390 --> 01:20:44,000
tread on old glory in the air on the sea

2217
01:20:48,870 --> 01:20:46,400
or on the ground his dream is to put the

2218
01:20:51,830 --> 01:20:48,880
united states back together again and

2219
01:20:53,590 --> 01:20:51,840
get laid a lot while he's doing it

2220
01:20:55,669 --> 01:20:53,600
for some of the greatest aerial action

2221
01:20:58,070 --> 01:20:55,679
you'll ever experience

2222
01:21:01,270 --> 01:20:58,080
strap in and hold on

2223
01:21:08,910 --> 01:21:01,280
wingman by mac maloney now available for

2224
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:38,149
[Music]

2225
01:21:40,950 --> 01:21:39,110
hey welcome back everyone to

2226
01:21:42,550 --> 01:21:40,960
macillonia's military style show here on

2227
01:21:44,709 --> 01:21:42,560
the distant thunder

2228
01:21:46,950 --> 01:21:44,719
radio network this magmalooney and we

2229
01:21:50,550 --> 01:21:46,960
are doing a special presentation tonight

2230
01:21:52,390 --> 01:21:50,560
the mystery of flight twa 800 which went

2231
01:21:53,830 --> 01:21:52,400
down off of long island about 20 years

2232
01:21:56,229 --> 01:21:53,840
ago

2233
01:21:58,070 --> 01:21:56,239
really a mystery as to what happened to

2234
01:22:01,510 --> 01:21:58,080
it it blew up in the sky the the

2235
01:22:03,590 --> 01:22:01,520
official explanation was that it was

2236
01:22:05,990 --> 01:22:03,600
shop lowe's for hot summer savings on

2237
01:22:07,830 --> 01:22:06,000
all things outdoor make your patio a

2238
01:22:09,830 --> 01:22:07,840
happen in hangout for family and friends

2239
01:22:11,990 --> 01:22:09,840
with up to 50 percent off select patio

2240
01:22:13,910 --> 01:22:12,000
furniture and outdoor decor and take

2241
01:22:16,070 --> 01:22:13,920
care of those uninvited weeds and get a

2242
01:22:18,550 --> 01:22:16,080
free refill with purchase of roundup or

2243
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:18,560
ortho home defense with comfort wand all

2244
01:22:22,470 --> 01:22:20,400
projects have a starting point start

2245
01:22:24,550 --> 01:22:22,480
with lows how do you offer valid while

2246
01:22:30,229 --> 01:22:24,560
supplies last refill offer valid 628

2247
01:22:33,910 --> 01:22:31,830
empty fuel tank

2248
01:22:35,430 --> 01:22:33,920
main fuel tank there were vapors

2249
01:22:37,430 --> 01:22:35,440
involved there was a short circuit it

2250
01:22:39,510 --> 01:22:37,440
blew up so on and so forth a lot of

2251
01:22:41,669 --> 01:22:39,520
people really don't buy that explanation

2252
01:22:44,070 --> 01:22:41,679
a lot of people saw something going up

2253
01:22:46,470 --> 01:22:44,080
from the surface up to the airplane as

2254
01:22:48,070 --> 01:22:46,480
if it was missile shooting it down

2255
01:22:50,470 --> 01:22:48,080
that missile might have come from a navy

2256
01:22:52,070 --> 01:22:50,480
ship inadvertently it might have been

2257
01:22:53,669 --> 01:22:52,080
terrorist activity there might have been

2258
01:22:55,830 --> 01:22:53,679
a bomb on board we've even talked about

2259
01:23:00,149 --> 01:22:55,840
ufo connections to it

2260
01:23:03,189 --> 01:23:00,159
20 years ago uh last month on july 1996

2261
01:23:05,030 --> 01:23:03,199
the disappearance the mystery of twa

2262
01:23:07,590 --> 01:23:05,040
flight 800 in the studio with us tonight

2263
01:23:09,669 --> 01:23:07,600
the very famous won one is here

2264
01:23:11,350 --> 01:23:09,679
hello matt good show so far i hope so

2265
01:23:13,030 --> 01:23:11,360
got my fingers crossed also commander

2266
01:23:15,430 --> 01:23:13,040
cobra from an undisclosed location

2267
01:23:17,030 --> 01:23:15,440
though it's actually in the next room

2268
01:23:19,030 --> 01:23:17,040
it's still undisclosed still on this

2269
01:23:21,110 --> 01:23:19,040
close okay good evening gentlemen agent

2270
01:23:22,950 --> 01:23:21,120
x is here with us agent x works for a

2271
01:23:25,270 --> 01:23:22,960
company that works very closely with u.s

2272
01:23:26,310 --> 01:23:25,280
intelligence agencies asian x thanks for

2273
01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:26,320
joining us

2274
01:23:30,390 --> 01:23:28,000
thanks for having me mac

2275
01:23:34,149 --> 01:23:30,400
and on the line with us is

2276
01:23:36,790 --> 01:23:34,159
jack cashel who is the author of twa 800

2277
01:23:38,709 --> 01:23:36,800
the crash the cover-up the conspiracy

2278
01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:38,719
you can buy it at your local

2279
01:23:42,390 --> 01:23:41,520
barnes and noble or amazon.com

2280
01:23:44,310 --> 01:23:42,400
um

2281
01:23:45,910 --> 01:23:44,320
very interesting book lots of research

2282
01:23:47,430 --> 01:23:45,920
how long did it take you

2283
01:23:49,350 --> 01:23:47,440
i know you took you told us it took us

2284
01:23:50,629 --> 01:23:49,360
six months you took six months to write

2285
01:23:52,070 --> 01:23:50,639
it but what was the research how long

2286
01:23:55,030 --> 01:23:52,080
did that take well you know i've been

2287
01:23:56,950 --> 01:23:55,040
accumulating information for 16 years

2288
01:23:58,550 --> 01:23:56,960
but the real breakthrough came just

2289
01:24:01,990 --> 01:23:58,560
about a year ago

2290
01:24:04,149 --> 01:24:02,000
when i got access to this amazing cache

2291
01:24:06,629 --> 01:24:04,159
of cia documents that had recently been

2292
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:06,639
unearthed by another researcher and who

2293
01:24:11,270 --> 01:24:08,480
shared them

2294
01:24:13,189 --> 01:24:11,280
you know i we knew the cia was involved

2295
01:24:15,350 --> 01:24:13,199
we knew the sausage at the end that was

2296
01:24:16,709 --> 01:24:15,360
this video they showed right to close

2297
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:16,719
the case in which

2298
01:24:21,030 --> 01:24:18,400
they showed a video in which the nose of

2299
01:24:22,629 --> 01:24:21,040
the plane blows off spontaneously from a

2300
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:22,639
fuel tank explosion

2301
01:24:28,229 --> 01:24:25,199
the plane turns upright like a rocket

2302
01:24:30,709 --> 01:24:28,239
and ascends nearly 5 000 feet

2303
01:24:32,470 --> 01:24:30,719
into space almost straight up right

2304
01:24:33,910 --> 01:24:32,480
confusing the witnesses into thinking

2305
01:24:36,390 --> 01:24:33,920
they saw a missile

2306
01:24:39,110 --> 01:24:36,400
we knew about that what the documents

2307
01:24:41,910 --> 01:24:39,120
show is the way the sausage was made

2308
01:24:45,110 --> 01:24:41,920
they showed that the cia involves itself

2309
01:24:46,310 --> 01:24:45,120
on day one of this investigation

2310
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:46,320
what makes that all the more

2311
01:24:49,910 --> 01:24:47,760
controversial

2312
01:24:52,550 --> 01:24:49,920
is that if you recall at the 9 11

2313
01:24:54,149 --> 01:24:52,560
commission hearings in 2004

2314
01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:54,159
they asked george tenet then the

2315
01:24:58,790 --> 01:24:56,400
director of central intelligence

2316
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:58,800
why did we let september 11th happen and

2317
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:00,719
he said the single greatest cause was

2318
01:25:03,590 --> 01:25:02,080
the wall

2319
01:25:06,390 --> 01:25:03,600
this memorandum that had been written in

2320
01:25:08,550 --> 01:25:06,400
1995 the year before the crash okay that

2321
01:25:10,229 --> 01:25:08,560
prevented the cia and the fbi from

2322
01:25:11,189 --> 01:25:10,239
communicating with each other why would

2323
01:25:12,870 --> 01:25:11,199
that be

2324
01:25:14,790 --> 01:25:12,880
and yet tenant oversaw the uh

2325
01:25:16,550 --> 01:25:14,800
collaboration but why would that be why

2326
01:25:17,830 --> 01:25:16,560
wouldn't you want these two agencies

2327
01:25:19,030 --> 01:25:17,840
talking to each other it seems like

2328
01:25:20,950 --> 01:25:19,040
unnatural

2329
01:25:22,149 --> 01:25:20,960
it was yes it was a natural but it was a

2330
01:25:24,310 --> 01:25:22,159
legalism

2331
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:24,320
uh and bizarrely the author of the wall

2332
01:25:29,750 --> 01:25:28,080
member ms jamie gorelick oversaw the tw

2333
01:25:31,669 --> 01:25:29,760
800 investigation from the justice

2334
01:25:33,830 --> 01:25:31,679
department perspective she's deputy

2335
01:25:36,390 --> 01:25:33,840
attorney general she's rewarded for her

2336
01:25:37,590 --> 01:25:36,400
effort with a the most plum job in

2337
01:25:39,510 --> 01:25:37,600
washington

2338
01:25:42,149 --> 01:25:39,520
a vice chair of fannie mae she'll make

2339
01:25:42,950 --> 01:25:42,159
25 million dollars over the next six

2340
01:25:45,990 --> 01:25:42,960
years

2341
01:25:48,629 --> 01:25:46,000
then she steps down to do what

2342
01:25:50,790 --> 01:25:48,639
take a seat on the 911 commission

2343
01:25:52,629 --> 01:25:50,800
and she hears about the wall the wall

2344
01:25:54,550 --> 01:25:52,639
the wall and how problematic the wall

2345
01:25:56,629 --> 01:25:54,560
was it's not until the end of the

2346
01:25:58,870 --> 01:25:56,639
hearings when attorney general john

2347
01:26:00,629 --> 01:25:58,880
ashcroft gets up and says yes he goes

2348
01:26:01,510 --> 01:26:00,639
the greatest obstacle

2349
01:26:03,910 --> 01:26:01,520
uh

2350
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:03,920
for us when we're trying to solve you

2351
01:26:07,270 --> 01:26:05,760
know to fight terrorism before september

2352
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:07,280
11th was the wall

2353
01:26:12,149 --> 01:26:09,199
and this is in full disclosure i have to

2354
01:26:14,550 --> 01:26:12,159
tell you that the author of this memo

2355
01:26:16,390 --> 01:26:14,560
is sitting on the 911 commission she had

2356
01:26:18,870 --> 01:26:16,400
never mentioned that

2357
01:26:19,990 --> 01:26:18,880
getting scary juan juan has a question

2358
01:26:22,550 --> 01:26:20,000
sure

2359
01:26:25,669 --> 01:26:22,560
jack with all the confiscation of tapes

2360
01:26:27,350 --> 01:26:25,679
videos and whatnot by the feds

2361
01:26:29,510 --> 01:26:27,360
aren't there a ton of air traffic

2362
01:26:31,990 --> 01:26:29,520
controllers that would have been on duty

2363
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:32,000
in that particular sector of uh airspace

2364
01:26:35,189 --> 01:26:33,760
and you know approximately how many

2365
01:26:37,669 --> 01:26:35,199
would there be and are they all in

2366
01:26:39,430 --> 01:26:37,679
hiding uh none of them have come forward

2367
01:26:40,629 --> 01:26:39,440
i've heard from two of them since my

2368
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:40,639
book came out

2369
01:26:44,470 --> 01:26:42,960
uh and they will not let me use their

2370
01:26:47,270 --> 01:26:44,480
name as one said i have dependent

2371
01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:47,280
children still you know and they're very

2372
01:26:51,669 --> 01:26:49,440
specific about their fears and these

2373
01:26:53,750 --> 01:26:51,679
people are with first-hand information

2374
01:26:55,189 --> 01:26:53,760
fear for more than just their pensions

2375
01:26:57,270 --> 01:26:55,199
they fear for their health and safety

2376
01:26:58,950 --> 01:26:57,280
and those of their children um

2377
01:27:00,950 --> 01:26:58,960
but whether their fears are justified or

2378
01:27:02,550 --> 01:27:00,960
not i can't tell you but they're

2379
01:27:04,470 --> 01:27:02,560
pervasive

2380
01:27:06,550 --> 01:27:04,480
you know throughout the industry people

2381
01:27:08,870 --> 01:27:06,560
who have firsthand information

2382
01:27:11,510 --> 01:27:08,880
for instance i i was able

2383
01:27:13,030 --> 01:27:11,520
uh one of my best contacts and this was

2384
01:27:15,270 --> 01:27:13,040
very helpful

2385
01:27:16,070 --> 01:27:15,280
was a uh this this is within the last

2386
01:27:18,229 --> 01:27:16,080
month

2387
01:27:19,990 --> 01:27:18,239
a fellow who worked for raytheon uh

2388
01:27:22,310 --> 01:27:20,000
which makes the uh was the lead

2389
01:27:24,550 --> 01:27:22,320
contractor in the production of uh

2390
01:27:26,310 --> 01:27:24,560
standard amer you know us standard

2391
01:27:27,830 --> 01:27:26,320
standard two missiles

2392
01:27:29,189 --> 01:27:27,840
and um yeah

2393
01:27:31,430 --> 01:27:29,199
i just interrupt the standard two

2394
01:27:33,270 --> 01:27:31,440
missile that's the designation for the

2395
01:27:35,350 --> 01:27:33,280
type of uh

2396
01:27:37,270 --> 01:27:35,360
missile that the navy ships surface

2397
01:27:39,030 --> 01:27:37,280
ships are carrying right anti-aircraft

2398
01:27:40,709 --> 01:27:39,040
and my uh informants in the navy say

2399
01:27:42,950 --> 01:27:40,719
that's almost assuredly the kind of

2400
01:27:44,310 --> 01:27:42,960
missile that was fired that night i say

2401
01:27:46,950 --> 01:27:44,320
almost assuredly because they can't

2402
01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:46,960
assure me but the anyhow the fellow and

2403
01:27:51,350 --> 01:27:48,560
raytheon worked with the fbi missile

2404
01:27:53,270 --> 01:27:51,360
team and he pointed out to me the fellow

2405
01:27:55,189 --> 01:27:53,280
there was one fellow on the fbi missile

2406
01:27:56,629 --> 01:27:55,199
team who stood up to

2407
01:28:00,950 --> 01:27:56,639
the cia

2408
01:28:03,350 --> 01:28:00,960
they were going to say about all these

2409
01:28:04,070 --> 01:28:03,360
eyewitnesses he refused to buy what they

2410
01:28:05,910 --> 01:28:04,080
said

2411
01:28:08,149 --> 01:28:05,920
this is you know six months into the

2412
01:28:10,629 --> 01:28:08,159
investigation and we know that now

2413
01:28:13,189 --> 01:28:10,639
through the cia memorandum he says to

2414
01:28:15,510 --> 01:28:13,199
them you know there's at least eight

2415
01:28:18,629 --> 01:28:15,520
people who saw a missile hit the

2416
01:28:20,470 --> 01:28:18,639
airplane at least 30 people saw the

2417
01:28:22,310 --> 01:28:20,480
missile going in the opposite direction

2418
01:28:24,470 --> 01:28:22,320
of flight 800. so they couldn't have

2419
01:28:26,229 --> 01:28:24,480
seen it in crippled flight they saw

2420
01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:26,239
something come at it from the opposite

2421
01:28:28,870 --> 01:28:27,280
direction

2422
01:28:30,390 --> 01:28:28,880
and he says until you can clear these up

2423
01:28:33,990 --> 01:28:30,400
and until you can clear up the radar

2424
01:28:35,350 --> 01:28:34,000
data you should absolutely withdraw

2425
01:28:37,430 --> 01:28:35,360
your um

2426
01:28:39,590 --> 01:28:37,440
your analysis which had already been

2427
01:28:40,830 --> 01:28:39,600
approved by tenant and louis free the

2428
01:28:44,310 --> 01:28:40,840
louis free head of the

2429
01:28:48,310 --> 01:28:44,320
fbi uh and so he identified that guy for

2430
01:28:50,629 --> 01:28:48,320
me i was able to find out where he lives

2431
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:50,639
he wouldn't answer my phone call so i

2432
01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:52,320
wrote an article about him very positive

2433
01:28:54,229 --> 01:28:53,520
article

2434
01:28:56,870 --> 01:28:54,239
and

2435
01:28:58,629 --> 01:28:56,880
i sent him a letter you know so i mean

2436
01:29:00,629 --> 01:28:58,639
whoever would think snail mail would be

2437
01:29:02,390 --> 01:29:00,639
the way to communicate but maybe it is

2438
01:29:04,709 --> 01:29:02,400
i'm still waiting to hear

2439
01:29:06,390 --> 01:29:04,719
i'm not optimistic but at the same time

2440
01:29:07,270 --> 01:29:06,400
this guy his name did surface i'm going

2441
01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:07,280
to tell you his name because it's

2442
01:29:10,709 --> 01:29:09,360
surfaced in his contact his name is

2443
01:29:13,030 --> 01:29:10,719
steve bongard

2444
01:29:16,390 --> 01:29:13,040
in the summer of 2001

2445
01:29:18,870 --> 01:29:16,400
he was desperately warning his superiors

2446
01:29:21,350 --> 01:29:18,880
to break down the wall he said you know

2447
01:29:23,830 --> 01:29:21,360
because what they were they're tracing a

2448
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:23,840
a known terrorist to be uh a foot in the

2449
01:29:27,110 --> 01:29:26,080
united states his name was al madar

2450
01:29:30,709 --> 01:29:27,120
and in

2451
01:29:32,470 --> 01:29:30,719
late august 2001

2452
01:29:33,990 --> 01:29:32,480
this guy bangart sent a memo to a

2453
01:29:36,229 --> 01:29:34,000
superior saying

2454
01:29:39,350 --> 01:29:36,239
if we're not allowed to go after

2455
01:29:41,910 --> 01:29:39,360
al madar people are going to die

2456
01:29:44,149 --> 01:29:41,920
well two weeks later al madar joined up

2457
01:29:45,910 --> 01:29:44,159
with 18 of his buddies hijacked those

2458
01:29:47,830 --> 01:29:45,920
airplanes and knocked down the world

2459
01:29:50,149 --> 01:29:47,840
trade center

2460
01:29:52,070 --> 01:29:50,159
they could have stopped him they if they

2461
01:29:55,350 --> 01:29:52,080
were allowed to pursue him and they were

2462
01:29:58,149 --> 01:29:55,360
not in the summer of 2001

2463
01:29:59,830 --> 01:29:58,159
that's just it's insanity to me

2464
01:30:01,510 --> 01:29:59,840
yeah you know that these characters are

2465
01:30:04,310 --> 01:30:01,520
in the country you know they're up to

2466
01:30:06,790 --> 01:30:04,320
absolutely no good yet there's you know

2467
01:30:08,709 --> 01:30:06,800
some kind of i don't know i don't even

2468
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:08,719
know some kind of foolishness where the

2469
01:30:12,950 --> 01:30:11,600
the fbi can't talk protocol protocol

2470
01:30:14,709 --> 01:30:12,960
yeah there's like a legal issue it's

2471
01:30:16,790 --> 01:30:14,719
rightful protection and then it's under

2472
01:30:19,990 --> 01:30:16,800
the guise of some legalism so since the

2473
01:30:22,070 --> 01:30:20,000
legal is the quoted jack why did the cia

2474
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:22,080
get the nod to lead this investigation

2475
01:30:25,750 --> 01:30:23,760
see that can i just add on to that

2476
01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:25,760
question okay here it is is that

2477
01:30:28,390 --> 01:30:26,639
is that

2478
01:30:30,070 --> 01:30:28,400
you know just on the simple matter of

2479
01:30:32,229 --> 01:30:30,080
things the fbi takes care of stuff

2480
01:30:34,310 --> 01:30:32,239
inside the country the cia takes care of

2481
01:30:35,590 --> 01:30:34,320
stuff outside of the country so if this

2482
01:30:37,590 --> 01:30:35,600
was something that

2483
01:30:39,990 --> 01:30:37,600
they said you know is is vapors in a

2484
01:30:41,669 --> 01:30:40,000
fuel tank why is the cia involved i'm

2485
01:30:43,510 --> 01:30:41,679
basically asking the same question why

2486
01:30:45,189 --> 01:30:43,520
would they be involved in this

2487
01:30:47,110 --> 01:30:45,199
well there is no legitimate reason for

2488
01:30:49,669 --> 01:30:47,120
their involvement we know from their

2489
01:30:51,350 --> 01:30:49,679
documents that the quote is something

2490
01:30:53,830 --> 01:30:51,360
like this the director of intelligent

2491
01:30:55,830 --> 01:30:53,840
involves itself in the missile theory

2492
01:30:57,510 --> 01:30:55,840
from day one

2493
01:31:00,390 --> 01:30:57,520
now here's what we know what happened

2494
01:31:02,550 --> 01:31:00,400
two weeks after the crash

2495
01:31:04,229 --> 01:31:02,560
the missile team the fbi missile team

2496
01:31:06,310 --> 01:31:04,239
and there's only two guys on the fbi

2497
01:31:08,070 --> 01:31:06,320
missile team that have 500 agents on the

2498
01:31:10,470 --> 01:31:08,080
case which is crazy

2499
01:31:12,390 --> 01:31:10,480
and bongart is a naval academy graduate

2500
01:31:15,350 --> 01:31:12,400
a formal naval flyer

2501
01:31:17,430 --> 01:31:15,360
and he meets with the cia he and his

2502
01:31:20,470 --> 01:31:17,440
partner meet with the cia

2503
01:31:22,950 --> 01:31:20,480
on uh the cia

2504
01:31:25,669 --> 01:31:22,960
analyst teasingly titles the

2505
01:31:26,950 --> 01:31:25,679
uh the summary of this meeting hold the

2506
01:31:28,790 --> 01:31:26,960
press

2507
01:31:32,310 --> 01:31:28,800
and what happens is that

2508
01:31:34,629 --> 01:31:32,320
uh the fbi missile team tells the cia

2509
01:31:37,430 --> 01:31:34,639
they've already interviewed 144

2510
01:31:39,430 --> 01:31:37,440
excellent their word eyewitnesses the

2511
01:31:40,709 --> 01:31:39,440
evidence is overwhelming

2512
01:31:42,390 --> 01:31:40,719
their word

2513
01:31:45,669 --> 01:31:42,400
and it's too consistent for it to be

2514
01:31:47,910 --> 01:31:45,679
anything but a surface-to-air missile

2515
01:31:49,830 --> 01:31:47,920
the cia guy then boasts to his we're

2516
01:31:51,910 --> 01:31:49,840
reading this in the cia's guy who's

2517
01:31:54,149 --> 01:31:51,920
writing these memos he boasts to his

2518
01:31:56,790 --> 01:31:54,159
superior the names are redacted

2519
01:31:58,709 --> 01:31:56,800
that he did his best to discourage

2520
01:32:01,590 --> 01:31:58,719
the fbi from coming forward with its

2521
01:32:04,070 --> 01:32:01,600
report which was all but finished

2522
01:32:06,390 --> 01:32:04,080
well he succeeded the cia someone had

2523
01:32:07,910 --> 01:32:06,400
the cia's back it's clear because two

2524
01:32:10,070 --> 01:32:07,920
weeks later

2525
01:32:12,310 --> 01:32:10,080
when the fbi introduces to the new york

2526
01:32:13,910 --> 01:32:12,320
times the one eyewitness they'll be

2527
01:32:16,070 --> 01:32:13,920
allowed to interview

2528
01:32:18,070 --> 01:32:16,080
he's an eyewitness who saw something out

2529
01:32:19,990 --> 01:32:18,080
of the corner of his eye that struck him

2530
01:32:21,830 --> 01:32:20,000
as being a bomb because it was he didn't

2531
01:32:23,830 --> 01:32:21,840
see the missile trail leading up he just

2532
01:32:26,149 --> 01:32:23,840
saw a bright white flash

2533
01:32:28,070 --> 01:32:26,159
and for a month the fbi ran with the

2534
01:32:30,870 --> 01:32:28,080
bomb and and they said

2535
01:32:33,270 --> 01:32:30,880
at that time and two weeks after the 144

2536
01:32:35,189 --> 01:32:33,280
witnesses were down to fewer than a

2537
01:32:37,990 --> 01:32:35,199
dozen credible witnesses

2538
01:32:40,070 --> 01:32:38,000
and the this one interview the new york

2539
01:32:42,070 --> 01:32:40,080
times did the only interview they would

2540
01:32:44,790 --> 01:32:42,080
do with an eyewitness led them to

2541
01:32:46,870 --> 01:32:44,800
believe that any support for a missile

2542
01:32:48,470 --> 01:32:46,880
theory is collapsing and is almost

2543
01:32:51,830 --> 01:32:48,480
assuredly a bomb

2544
01:32:55,669 --> 01:32:51,840
this is a month after the crash

2545
01:32:58,390 --> 01:32:55,679
um agent x has a question sure

2546
01:33:00,629 --> 01:32:58,400
yeah jack i was uh pretty impressed when

2547
01:33:01,990 --> 01:33:00,639
uh mack told me that you were going to

2548
01:33:03,669 --> 01:33:02,000
be the guest

2549
01:33:05,350 --> 01:33:03,679
because i've followed some of the things

2550
01:33:06,950 --> 01:33:05,360
you've written over the years

2551
01:33:10,229 --> 01:33:06,960
this and others

2552
01:33:13,669 --> 01:33:10,239
and uh i just have a couple of questions

2553
01:33:16,790 --> 01:33:13,679
sure first you started out by saying

2554
01:33:19,510 --> 01:33:16,800
that uh you have two

2555
01:33:21,270 --> 01:33:19,520
um suppositions that you have two

2556
01:33:23,750 --> 01:33:21,280
theories one you're very confident with

2557
01:33:26,550 --> 01:33:23,760
you have high confidence that is that it

2558
01:33:28,149 --> 01:33:26,560
was taken down by a missile

2559
01:33:30,149 --> 01:33:28,159
right and um

2560
01:33:31,669 --> 01:33:30,159
and missile to me means something

2561
01:33:34,229 --> 01:33:31,679
kinetic something

2562
01:33:37,590 --> 01:33:34,239
um that's an impact

2563
01:33:39,669 --> 01:33:37,600
type of thing and and that one that one

2564
01:33:42,709 --> 01:33:39,679
seems pretty squared away

2565
01:33:46,070 --> 01:33:42,719
yeah the second one you said you have

2566
01:33:48,149 --> 01:33:46,080
less confidence and that's but that was

2567
01:33:49,590 --> 01:33:48,159
by it was the us government in this case

2568
01:33:51,750 --> 01:33:49,600
the navy

2569
01:33:53,590 --> 01:33:51,760
so um

2570
01:33:55,669 --> 01:33:53,600
the commander brought up earlier the

2571
01:33:57,430 --> 01:33:55,679
geopolitical situation at the time this

2572
01:33:58,149 --> 01:33:57,440
is 1996.

2573
01:34:02,070 --> 01:33:58,159
right

2574
01:34:05,350 --> 01:34:02,080
the bosnian conflict uh which was

2575
01:34:08,470 --> 01:34:05,360
a major conflict had

2576
01:34:10,709 --> 01:34:08,480
had just kind of concluded with

2577
01:34:13,830 --> 01:34:10,719
uh with with what was going on but

2578
01:34:17,270 --> 01:34:13,840
kosovo was on the way and yet to come

2579
01:34:18,390 --> 01:34:17,280
right at that time um

2580
01:34:20,790 --> 01:34:18,400
uh

2581
01:34:21,750 --> 01:34:20,800
the surface-to-air missiles whether they

2582
01:34:25,110 --> 01:34:21,760
were

2583
01:34:28,550 --> 01:34:25,120
on the cheap side the old soviet sa-7s

2584
01:34:30,830 --> 01:34:28,560
or the chinese hn-1s and the various

2585
01:34:31,750 --> 01:34:30,840
variants of those plus

2586
01:34:34,629 --> 01:34:31,760
the uh

2587
01:34:38,550 --> 01:34:34,639
a large amount of much more

2588
01:34:40,070 --> 01:34:38,560
sophisticated sa-14 and stinger missiles

2589
01:34:41,430 --> 01:34:40,080
that had been

2590
01:34:43,669 --> 01:34:41,440
passed around

2591
01:34:45,189 --> 01:34:43,679
that the low variant cost about seven

2592
01:34:47,430 --> 01:34:45,199
thousand dollars

2593
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:47,440
in the and the on the black market i'm

2594
01:34:50,149 --> 01:34:48,960
not saying you could walk into my gun

2595
01:34:52,390 --> 01:34:50,159
shop up here

2596
01:34:53,830 --> 01:34:52,400
but on the black market and the high

2597
01:34:57,110 --> 01:34:53,840
variants were

2598
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:57,120
uh anywhere from 11 000 to 15 000

2599
01:35:01,510 --> 01:35:00,400
right and i understand they both the low

2600
01:35:04,950 --> 01:35:01,520
the

2601
01:35:05,910 --> 01:35:04,960
ones

2602
01:35:06,870 --> 01:35:05,920
had

2603
01:35:07,830 --> 01:35:06,880
were

2604
01:35:09,669 --> 01:35:07,840
had

2605
01:35:12,149 --> 01:35:09,679
reduced uh

2606
01:35:13,110 --> 01:35:12,159
altitude envelopes and so forth

2607
01:35:15,110 --> 01:35:13,120
but

2608
01:35:18,149 --> 01:35:15,120
they still could do that

2609
01:35:20,149 --> 01:35:18,159
and they were all over the place i'm not

2610
01:35:20,950 --> 01:35:20,159
saying that's what happened

2611
01:35:24,310 --> 01:35:20,960
but

2612
01:35:26,550 --> 01:35:24,320
i'm just wondering why you were so

2613
01:35:30,950 --> 01:35:26,560
uh quick to

2614
01:35:32,950 --> 01:35:30,960
say that it was not either a

2615
01:35:34,550 --> 01:35:32,960
sea-based or

2616
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:34,560
land-based

2617
01:35:39,910 --> 01:35:37,840
uh man-pads missile that did that

2618
01:35:42,550 --> 01:35:39,920
and

2619
01:35:46,149 --> 01:35:42,560
would that not be more

2620
01:35:47,189 --> 01:35:46,159
likely likely or believable

2621
01:35:49,669 --> 01:35:47,199
than

2622
01:35:51,669 --> 01:35:49,679
that our own government did that

2623
01:35:53,990 --> 01:35:51,679
notwithstanding the pretty nasty

2624
01:35:55,510 --> 01:35:54,000
geopolitical situation going on sure

2625
01:35:58,390 --> 01:35:55,520
well i would say this today it's a good

2626
01:36:00,229 --> 01:35:58,400
question uh when i first got into this i

2627
01:36:01,669 --> 01:36:00,239
i presumed it was a terrorist and i was

2628
01:36:03,669 --> 01:36:01,679
kind of you know you have a kind of

2629
01:36:05,990 --> 01:36:03,679
confirmation bias when you enter an

2630
01:36:07,590 --> 01:36:06,000
investigation you would i would rather

2631
01:36:08,830 --> 01:36:07,600
it have been a terrorist

2632
01:36:11,990 --> 01:36:08,840
i was very

2633
01:36:13,990 --> 01:36:12,000
uncomfortable with accusing the navy of

2634
01:36:15,350 --> 01:36:14,000
being responsible

2635
01:36:17,510 --> 01:36:15,360
but a couple things

2636
01:36:19,430 --> 01:36:17,520
come into play here one thing is we know

2637
01:36:22,390 --> 01:36:19,440
in 1988

2638
01:36:25,030 --> 01:36:22,400
we more or less accidentally shot down

2639
01:36:27,110 --> 01:36:25,040
an iranian airbus filled with you know

2640
01:36:28,629 --> 01:36:27,120
commercial passengers right killed about

2641
01:36:29,750 --> 01:36:28,639
300 people

2642
01:36:31,510 --> 01:36:29,760
uh

2643
01:36:34,229 --> 01:36:31,520
we also know that the navy did a pretty

2644
01:36:35,510 --> 01:36:34,239
good job of trying to no one no one gets

2645
01:36:37,110 --> 01:36:35,520
goes to prison by the way you know if

2646
01:36:38,870 --> 01:36:37,120
your cop shoots someone accidentally he

2647
01:36:40,870 --> 01:36:38,880
goes to prison for the rest of his life

2648
01:36:42,790 --> 01:36:40,880
if a navy guy shoots down a plane with

2649
01:36:44,950 --> 01:36:42,800
300 people accidentally he gets a

2650
01:36:46,470 --> 01:36:44,960
training gig where no one sees it again

2651
01:36:48,629 --> 01:36:46,480
hey if wall street bank has you know

2652
01:36:50,470 --> 01:36:48,639
almost collapsed the government you know

2653
01:36:52,709 --> 01:36:50,480
martha stewart goes to jail

2654
01:36:54,870 --> 01:36:52,719
right exactly so what we know too is in

2655
01:36:57,750 --> 01:36:54,880
1992 i heard this from one of one of the

2656
01:36:59,750 --> 01:36:57,760
guys who was involved just a week ago

2657
01:37:01,910 --> 01:36:59,760
i didn't even know about this case

2658
01:37:03,990 --> 01:37:01,920
was that uh in the by the way in the

2659
01:37:06,709 --> 01:37:04,000
iranian case the airbus

2660
01:37:09,030 --> 01:37:06,719
uh the captain will rogers who might

2661
01:37:10,950 --> 01:37:09,040
contact say was trigger happy

2662
01:37:12,790 --> 01:37:10,960
pulled the trigger i mean he consciously

2663
01:37:14,310 --> 01:37:12,800
pulled the trigger and misinterpreted

2664
01:37:17,109 --> 01:37:14,320
all the data

2665
01:37:18,709 --> 01:37:17,119
the second case there was total accident

2666
01:37:21,430 --> 01:37:18,719
they couldn't believe they had done it

2667
01:37:24,070 --> 01:37:21,440
it was a lie accidental live fire during

2668
01:37:26,870 --> 01:37:24,080
a nato exercise off the coast of turkey

2669
01:37:29,270 --> 01:37:26,880
in which uh the uss saratoga

2670
01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:29,280
uh took out the command center of

2671
01:37:32,950 --> 01:37:31,760
a turkish uh cruiser right and killed

2672
01:37:35,990 --> 01:37:32,960
five people

2673
01:37:37,270 --> 01:37:36,000
that was in 92. uh so these accidents

2674
01:37:39,109 --> 01:37:37,280
can happen

2675
01:37:41,669 --> 01:37:39,119
what i would say with the uh all

2676
01:37:44,470 --> 01:37:41,679
together 100 confidence and navy was

2677
01:37:46,709 --> 01:37:44,480
doing exercises there so if there were a

2678
01:37:49,510 --> 01:37:46,719
terrorist involved it would almost

2679
01:37:50,550 --> 01:37:49,520
assuredly been at sea because of the

2680
01:37:53,350 --> 01:37:50,560
distance

2681
01:37:55,430 --> 01:37:53,360
uh the plane's at 13 000 plus feet

2682
01:37:56,149 --> 01:37:55,440
they're 10 miles off the coast

2683
01:37:57,669 --> 01:37:56,159
it's

2684
01:37:59,910 --> 01:37:57,679
i'm not sure there's a man pad that's

2685
01:38:02,950 --> 01:37:59,920
been made that could go 10 miles out in

2686
01:38:04,870 --> 01:38:02,960
13 000 feet up and still be effective

2687
01:38:07,430 --> 01:38:04,880
there might be i just it just and the

2688
01:38:09,750 --> 01:38:07,440
outside of that envelope however for at

2689
01:38:12,149 --> 01:38:09,760
sea is another issue so i don't rule

2690
01:38:14,629 --> 01:38:12,159
that out but it would have been clever

2691
01:38:16,950 --> 01:38:14,639
enough to infiltrate this naval exercise

2692
01:38:18,070 --> 01:38:16,960
then hightail it added there

2693
01:38:20,229 --> 01:38:18,080
uh

2694
01:38:22,390 --> 01:38:20,239
to um to

2695
01:38:24,790 --> 01:38:22,400
cast the blame on the u.s navy that's

2696
01:38:26,390 --> 01:38:24,800
why i give that a very small window of

2697
01:38:27,430 --> 01:38:26,400
possibility but not

2698
01:38:28,629 --> 01:38:27,440
totally

2699
01:38:30,390 --> 01:38:28,639
impossible

2700
01:38:32,950 --> 01:38:30,400
we also talked about that no terrorist

2701
01:38:34,390 --> 01:38:32,960
group claim responsibility for it so you

2702
01:38:36,390 --> 01:38:34,400
know why do it if you don't claim

2703
01:38:37,830 --> 01:38:36,400
responsibility for it well some groups

2704
01:38:39,910 --> 01:38:37,840
did actually but that you know for

2705
01:38:41,990 --> 01:38:39,920
instance ramsay youssef was on trial

2706
01:38:43,510 --> 01:38:42,000
that very day in new york city

2707
01:38:44,550 --> 01:38:43,520
he was the guy who blew up the world

2708
01:38:47,189 --> 01:38:44,560
trade center

2709
01:38:49,189 --> 01:38:47,199
had been um convicted of that

2710
01:38:52,149 --> 01:38:49,199
and was on trial for bojinka that the

2711
01:38:53,590 --> 01:38:52,159
plot that would blow up airlines in fact

2712
01:38:55,189 --> 01:38:53,600
and the ultimate another the ultimate

2713
01:38:56,950 --> 01:38:55,199
definition of spy he threw himself on

2714
01:38:58,629 --> 01:38:56,960
the mercy of the court saying there is

2715
01:39:00,709 --> 01:38:58,639
certainly a bias now against people who

2716
01:39:02,629 --> 01:39:00,719
blow up airplanes yeah you know well he

2717
01:39:03,669 --> 01:39:02,639
was right there wasn't he yeah

2718
01:39:05,350 --> 01:39:03,679
well

2719
01:39:06,550 --> 01:39:05,360
jack i got to interject that's the

2720
01:39:08,709 --> 01:39:06,560
second time the word hutzpa in the

2721
01:39:11,030 --> 01:39:08,719
modern definition uh that's another

2722
01:39:12,790 --> 01:39:11,040
variant coming in and i just love to add

2723
01:39:14,149 --> 01:39:12,800
the ironic twist that we're talking

2724
01:39:15,669 --> 01:39:14,159
about muslims and you're using the

2725
01:39:17,510 --> 01:39:15,679
jewish yiddish

2726
01:39:19,109 --> 01:39:17,520
uh mazel tov you know what i mean that

2727
01:39:20,149 --> 01:39:19,119
was just beautiful what it was well one

2728
01:39:21,669 --> 01:39:20,159
second

2729
01:39:24,709 --> 01:39:21,679
dot com and i found that i'm one percent

2730
01:39:28,790 --> 01:39:27,430
i have to drop these words

2731
01:39:30,870 --> 01:39:28,800
commander now that you've said it what

2732
01:39:33,189 --> 01:39:30,880
is uh what was your explanation earlier

2733
01:39:35,109 --> 01:39:33,199
at our radio meeting for the definition

2734
01:39:36,629 --> 01:39:35,119
of the guy kills his parents yes oh yeah

2735
01:39:38,229 --> 01:39:36,639
and then goes to court and fleets of the

2736
01:39:44,709 --> 01:39:38,239
judge i'm an orphan take mercy on me

2737
01:39:52,470 --> 01:39:47,189
oh my god yeah thanks that's why we pay

2738
01:39:55,030 --> 01:39:53,510
okay

2739
01:39:56,950 --> 01:39:55,040
long road for that one

2740
01:39:58,550 --> 01:39:56,960
jack let me ask you this okay now in all

2741
01:39:59,590 --> 01:39:58,560
this discussion that we've had tonight

2742
01:40:00,709 --> 01:39:59,600
already

2743
01:40:02,229 --> 01:40:00,719
uh

2744
01:40:03,990 --> 01:40:02,239
no one is brought up or no one has

2745
01:40:05,750 --> 01:40:04,000
conjectured that hey maybe there might

2746
01:40:07,510 --> 01:40:05,760
have been a bomb on board and wasn't

2747
01:40:09,830 --> 01:40:07,520
there some kind of um

2748
01:40:11,910 --> 01:40:09,840
finding later on that they found like um

2749
01:40:14,390 --> 01:40:11,920
you know residue on one of the seats

2750
01:40:15,510 --> 01:40:14,400
that had something to do with you know

2751
01:40:17,430 --> 01:40:15,520
um

2752
01:40:19,030 --> 01:40:17,440
uh explosives

2753
01:40:20,629 --> 01:40:19,040
and then someone said well you know they

2754
01:40:22,790 --> 01:40:20,639
did a training exercise or they actually

2755
01:40:24,229 --> 01:40:22,800
brought real explosives on the plane so

2756
01:40:26,709 --> 01:40:24,239
the dog could sniff them or whatever

2757
01:40:28,470 --> 01:40:26,719
what about the bomb on board theory

2758
01:40:31,270 --> 01:40:28,480
well you know what happened is that as i

2759
01:40:32,870 --> 01:40:31,280
suggested earlier uh the

2760
01:40:34,629 --> 01:40:32,880
the administration decided at some point

2761
01:40:36,870 --> 01:40:34,639
it could live with a bomb

2762
01:40:39,109 --> 01:40:36,880
so that is when the cia drilled down the

2763
01:40:41,270 --> 01:40:39,119
fbi missile team and and basically

2764
01:40:43,189 --> 01:40:41,280
forced them to go with a bomb scenario

2765
01:40:47,109 --> 01:40:43,199
yes there was explosive residue found on

2766
01:40:48,070 --> 01:40:47,119
the plane art uh rdx petn and for a

2767
01:40:51,590 --> 01:40:48,080
month

2768
01:40:53,109 --> 01:40:51,600
the new york times rode that hard on

2769
01:40:54,950 --> 01:40:53,119
august 23rd

2770
01:40:56,550 --> 01:40:54,960
the headline above the fold in new york

2771
01:40:58,950 --> 01:40:56,560
times was

2772
01:41:02,870 --> 01:40:58,960
uh prime evidence found that explosive

2773
01:41:04,950 --> 01:41:02,880
device uh in cabin destroys twa 800.

2774
01:41:05,990 --> 01:41:04,960
you know so they were they were hedging

2775
01:41:07,910 --> 01:41:06,000
their bets a little bit but they were

2776
01:41:09,189 --> 01:41:07,920
saying it's the evidence is overwhelming

2777
01:41:11,350 --> 01:41:09,199
that it's a bomb

2778
01:41:14,070 --> 01:41:11,360
and a but a small outside possibility is

2779
01:41:16,310 --> 01:41:14,080
a missile but at this time no one knew

2780
01:41:19,189 --> 01:41:16,320
about the eyewitnesses except for the

2781
01:41:21,510 --> 01:41:19,199
cia and the fbi missile team all that

2782
01:41:24,070 --> 01:41:21,520
talk had been suppressed so bomb made

2783
01:41:25,750 --> 01:41:24,080
sense and this was just before at this

2784
01:41:27,910 --> 01:41:25,760
time only 10 of the american people were

2785
01:41:29,109 --> 01:41:27,920
on the internet so they weren't aware

2786
01:41:30,950 --> 01:41:29,119
you know they weren't talking to each

2787
01:41:33,350 --> 01:41:30,960
other they could never have gotten away

2788
01:41:36,070 --> 01:41:33,360
with this today

2789
01:41:38,950 --> 01:41:36,080
and so they rode that with a bomb

2790
01:41:40,950 --> 01:41:38,960
and then on on august 23rd the day the

2791
01:41:43,590 --> 01:41:40,960
time was ran with that headline

2792
01:41:46,629 --> 01:41:43,600
the faa was ordered to look all over the

2793
01:41:49,270 --> 01:41:46,639
world to see if they could find the time

2794
01:41:53,189 --> 01:41:49,280
when the tw 800 plane

2795
01:41:54,870 --> 01:41:53,199
uh was used for a dog training exercise

2796
01:41:56,390 --> 01:41:54,880
in which explosive

2797
01:41:57,590 --> 01:41:56,400
training aids would be placed throughout

2798
01:42:00,550 --> 01:41:57,600
the plane

2799
01:42:03,270 --> 01:42:00,560
they finally thought they found one and

2800
01:42:05,350 --> 01:42:03,280
they found what they discovered was on

2801
01:42:07,830 --> 01:42:05,360
on six weeks or before the crash on june

2802
01:42:11,270 --> 01:42:07,840
10th in saint louis a dog training

2803
01:42:13,350 --> 01:42:11,280
exercise had taken place on a wide body

2804
01:42:15,030 --> 01:42:13,360
and they only gave the designation wide

2805
01:42:16,870 --> 01:42:15,040
body in the time

2806
01:42:18,310 --> 01:42:16,880
well without even talking to the police

2807
01:42:21,030 --> 01:42:18,320
officer in question

2808
01:42:22,870 --> 01:42:21,040
i neither the fbi nor the new york times

2809
01:42:24,870 --> 01:42:22,880
bothered to talk to him i was the first

2810
01:42:27,109 --> 01:42:24,880
one to talk to him six years later

2811
01:42:29,669 --> 01:42:27,119
they ran with the story

2812
01:42:31,189 --> 01:42:29,679
sloppy training exercise explains all

2813
01:42:33,109 --> 01:42:31,199
the bomb res

2814
01:42:35,109 --> 01:42:33,119
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2815
01:42:37,189 --> 01:42:35,119
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2817
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2818
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2820
01:42:47,270 --> 01:42:45,119
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2821
01:42:49,510 --> 01:42:47,280
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2822
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2823
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2824
01:42:56,229 --> 01:42:54,000
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2825
01:43:00,310 --> 01:42:56,239
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2826
01:43:05,270 --> 01:43:02,070
to do you know

2827
01:43:08,709 --> 01:43:05,280
but in fact we could prove easily

2828
01:43:11,030 --> 01:43:08,719
that the plane in question the tw 800

2829
01:43:13,430 --> 01:43:11,040
plane all the officer designated was his

2830
01:43:14,950 --> 01:43:13,440
time and wide body well he finished at

2831
01:43:18,070 --> 01:43:14,960
12 15

2832
01:43:19,910 --> 01:43:18,080
and an empty plane at 12 30 that plane

2833
01:43:21,910 --> 01:43:19,920
was backing out of the gate with 400

2834
01:43:22,709 --> 01:43:21,920
people on board bound for hawaii didn't

2835
01:43:25,830 --> 01:43:22,719
happen

2836
01:43:27,430 --> 01:43:25,840
sitting next to it was a uh an empty

2837
01:43:30,709 --> 01:43:27,440
747.

2838
01:43:33,350 --> 01:43:30,719
now the fbi said oh he remembered what

2839
01:43:35,189 --> 01:43:33,360
gate he was at right so the interview

2840
01:43:36,870 --> 01:43:35,199
just stopped three months later and he's

2841
01:43:39,430 --> 01:43:36,880
supposed to remember what gate did the

2842
01:43:41,590 --> 01:43:39,440
training exercise the rain man couldn't

2843
01:43:44,070 --> 01:43:41,600
remember that you know

2844
01:43:46,470 --> 01:43:44,080
so um and it would have to have been a

2845
01:43:47,750 --> 01:43:46,480
substantial bomb for what people saw

2846
01:43:49,270 --> 01:43:47,760
happen right

2847
01:43:52,629 --> 01:43:49,280
yeah i mean it's not a bomb i mean it's

2848
01:43:55,350 --> 01:43:52,639
just that was just a bogus uh

2849
01:43:57,030 --> 01:43:55,360
you know sort of diversion that the fbi

2850
01:43:58,709 --> 01:43:57,040
and the administration ran on the

2851
01:44:01,030 --> 01:43:58,719
american public because

2852
01:44:02,709 --> 01:44:01,040
a bomb you could do things about you can

2853
01:44:04,229 --> 01:44:02,719
you can you know you can

2854
01:44:06,229 --> 01:44:04,239
put in and they did put in tougher

2855
01:44:08,070 --> 01:44:06,239
regulations that's when they instituted

2856
01:44:09,669 --> 01:44:08,080
all these like screening devices and all

2857
01:44:14,390 --> 01:44:09,679
that sort of stuff a lot of that went

2858
01:44:15,350 --> 01:44:14,400
into place after 19 after uh twa 800.

2859
01:44:16,550 --> 01:44:15,360
jack

2860
01:44:17,910 --> 01:44:16,560
with all the

2861
01:44:20,470 --> 01:44:17,920
fragments that were

2862
01:44:22,470 --> 01:44:20,480
found and put together don't you think

2863
01:44:24,070 --> 01:44:22,480
that there would be some residue

2864
01:44:26,070 --> 01:44:24,080
from the device

2865
01:44:27,990 --> 01:44:26,080
that took out the

2866
01:44:31,109 --> 01:44:28,000
the plane this this the missile one of

2867
01:44:33,270 --> 01:44:31,119
the two missiles or something crap

2868
01:44:36,229 --> 01:44:33,280
you know powder or something i just

2869
01:44:39,109 --> 01:44:36,239
stumbled on across an fbi report just uh

2870
01:44:39,990 --> 01:44:39,119
two days ago i had never seen it before

2871
01:44:41,830 --> 01:44:40,000
and

2872
01:44:43,590 --> 01:44:41,840
first of all it acknowledged that there

2873
01:44:45,109 --> 01:44:43,600
were several parts of the plane that had

2874
01:44:47,109 --> 01:44:45,119
been found with explosive residue and it

2875
01:44:50,950 --> 01:44:47,119
was very thorough and and they they said

2876
01:44:52,550 --> 01:44:50,960
what it was ptn rdx nitroglycerin etc

2877
01:44:53,430 --> 01:44:52,560
then i saw something i'd never seen

2878
01:44:56,390 --> 01:44:53,440
before

2879
01:44:57,990 --> 01:44:56,400
they assigned an fbi agent to review all

2880
01:44:59,510 --> 01:44:58,000
the holes and the

2881
01:45:01,910 --> 01:44:59,520
and the fuselage

2882
01:45:04,470 --> 01:45:01,920
and these are holes all of these holes

2883
01:45:07,030 --> 01:45:04,480
were holes from the outside in

2884
01:45:09,750 --> 01:45:07,040
and some of them were they distinguished

2885
01:45:11,990 --> 01:45:09,760
them between holes in which the

2886
01:45:14,070 --> 01:45:12,000
the metal was blown out right and others

2887
01:45:16,070 --> 01:45:14,080
in which the metal was simply bent in

2888
01:45:16,990 --> 01:45:16,080
but they're all from the outside in i

2889
01:45:19,669 --> 01:45:17,000
counted

2890
01:45:20,470 --> 01:45:19,679
116 holes

2891
01:45:22,550 --> 01:45:20,480
um

2892
01:45:24,790 --> 01:45:22,560
it also happens that 116 pieces of the

2893
01:45:26,470 --> 01:45:24,800
plane were sent to the fbi lab and never

2894
01:45:27,830 --> 01:45:26,480
seen again i don't know that may just be

2895
01:45:30,070 --> 01:45:27,840
a critical coincidence

2896
01:45:32,229 --> 01:45:30,080
um there's 116 different holes and this

2897
01:45:33,590 --> 01:45:32,239
guy accounted for a big spreadsheet he

2898
01:45:35,590 --> 01:45:33,600
you know these guys are doing a good job

2899
01:45:37,510 --> 01:45:35,600
they think they're doing the right thing

2900
01:45:39,990 --> 01:45:37,520
and then their bit their little bit that

2901
01:45:43,030 --> 01:45:40,000
they work on gets lost or gets you know

2902
01:45:45,109 --> 01:45:43,040
uh shunt to the side but no that that

2903
01:45:46,870 --> 01:45:45,119
whole thing of notion of no physical

2904
01:45:49,030 --> 01:45:46,880
evidence was a croc from the beginning

2905
01:45:52,070 --> 01:45:49,040
commander

2906
01:45:53,590 --> 01:45:52,080
i uh i'm i'm an amazement man listening

2907
01:45:56,229 --> 01:45:53,600
to the whole thing

2908
01:45:59,590 --> 01:45:56,239
i i think that we have uh

2909
01:46:01,669 --> 01:45:59,600
a preponderance of enough facts

2910
01:46:03,350 --> 01:46:01,679
that i believe that the internet where

2911
01:46:05,030 --> 01:46:03,360
it is now

2912
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:05,040
20 years later is going to probably

2913
01:46:09,430 --> 01:46:08,000
drive sufficient information coming out

2914
01:46:11,510 --> 01:46:09,440
um i

2915
01:46:13,109 --> 01:46:11,520
don't think anybody and i

2916
01:46:15,109 --> 01:46:13,119
we talked about the possibility of

2917
01:46:17,189 --> 01:46:15,119
assassination would someone sanction

2918
01:46:19,270 --> 01:46:17,199
some kind of a shot like this

2919
01:46:20,950 --> 01:46:19,280
and i do think we're at a point as a

2920
01:46:23,189 --> 01:46:20,960
civilization that they would do it but

2921
01:46:26,709 --> 01:46:23,199
it seems obvious after hearing jack lay

2922
01:46:28,629 --> 01:46:26,719
out most of the case as he has that this

2923
01:46:30,629 --> 01:46:28,639
is probably an accident and we're not

2924
01:46:32,629 --> 01:46:30,639
gonna own up to it

2925
01:46:35,189 --> 01:46:32,639
um

2926
01:46:37,109 --> 01:46:35,199
when you saw the cia animation i

2927
01:46:38,790 --> 01:46:37,119
remember i was just like watching tv one

2928
01:46:40,390 --> 01:46:38,800
night and it was like the discovery

2929
01:46:41,590 --> 01:46:40,400
channel or the national geographic

2930
01:46:43,430 --> 01:46:41,600
channel or something they said well

2931
01:46:45,910 --> 01:46:43,440
here's you know what the cia put

2932
01:46:46,870 --> 01:46:45,920
together on this um you know on on what

2933
01:46:49,350 --> 01:46:46,880
happened

2934
01:46:51,030 --> 01:46:49,360
and as you said it showed and i'll tell

2935
01:46:52,790 --> 01:46:51,040
you the animation was great that was the

2936
01:46:54,229 --> 01:46:52,800
disney channel

2937
01:46:56,070 --> 01:46:54,239
it looked like disney you know it looked

2938
01:46:57,750 --> 01:46:56,080
real and they said you know they show it

2939
01:46:59,750 --> 01:46:57,760
and they say well you know it blew up

2940
01:47:01,990 --> 01:46:59,760
and and and the the major part of the

2941
01:47:02,709 --> 01:47:02,000
airplane like when streaking

2942
01:47:04,950 --> 01:47:02,719
up

2943
01:47:06,310 --> 01:47:04,960
a mile or something and the front part

2944
01:47:08,070 --> 01:47:06,320
fell off and everything you're watching

2945
01:47:10,070 --> 01:47:08,080
you know this is just so beautifully

2946
01:47:11,990 --> 01:47:10,080
done but it just doesn't make sense it

2947
01:47:13,510 --> 01:47:12,000
almost like it didn't make sense

2948
01:47:15,189 --> 01:47:13,520
industrial light and magic can do

2949
01:47:17,910 --> 01:47:15,199
wonderful things in those studios with

2950
01:47:19,510 --> 01:47:17,920
silicon valley right but i mean in fact

2951
01:47:21,430 --> 01:47:19,520
there are two things that set aviators

2952
01:47:23,350 --> 01:47:21,440
off one is that what they call the zoom

2953
01:47:25,350 --> 01:47:23,360
climb the cartoon the question we just

2954
01:47:27,350 --> 01:47:25,360
talked about every aviator i've ever

2955
01:47:28,790 --> 01:47:27,360
talked to i'm not a technical person i i

2956
01:47:30,629 --> 01:47:28,800
don't you know

2957
01:47:31,750 --> 01:47:30,639
when i i speak to pilot groups i say

2958
01:47:33,270 --> 01:47:31,760
everyone in this room knows more than i

2959
01:47:35,990 --> 01:47:33,280
do let's start with that when it comes

2960
01:47:37,750 --> 01:47:36,000
to technical questions but they were

2961
01:47:39,590 --> 01:47:37,760
appalled by that

2962
01:47:42,310 --> 01:47:39,600
every one of them i talked to said

2963
01:47:43,830 --> 01:47:42,320
absolutely impossible you know from a

2964
01:47:46,310 --> 01:47:43,840
narrow dynamic point of view when it

2965
01:47:47,830 --> 01:47:46,320
falls off and you jet up 5 000 no it

2966
01:47:49,910 --> 01:47:47,840
doesn't happen and i read all the

2967
01:47:51,669 --> 01:47:49,920
eyewitness statements none of them saw

2968
01:47:54,229 --> 01:47:51,679
that including the other pilots in the

2969
01:47:55,910 --> 01:47:54,239
sky both below it and above it none of

2970
01:47:57,350 --> 01:47:55,920
them saw it they all said it fell right

2971
01:47:59,350 --> 01:47:57,360
out of the sky

2972
01:48:01,350 --> 01:47:59,360
the other thing that appalls

2973
01:48:03,750 --> 01:48:01,360
and it's hard because in the last month

2974
01:48:06,390 --> 01:48:03,760
i must have heard from 20 people

2975
01:48:07,830 --> 01:48:06,400
who worked inside fuel tanks a lot of

2976
01:48:09,910 --> 01:48:07,840
them were technicians mechanics

2977
01:48:12,470 --> 01:48:09,920
engineers some said you know pilots

2978
01:48:17,270 --> 01:48:12,480
themselves they said the notion

2979
01:48:18,470 --> 01:48:17,280
that a 747 fuel tank could spontaneously

2980
01:48:20,629 --> 01:48:18,480
explode

2981
01:48:22,950 --> 01:48:20,639
is and one guy said when i heard that

2982
01:48:25,830 --> 01:48:22,960
explanation made me sick to my stomach

2983
01:48:27,510 --> 01:48:25,840
he said it is impossible enough said it

2984
01:48:28,470 --> 01:48:27,520
cannot happen

2985
01:48:29,750 --> 01:48:28,480
right and

2986
01:48:33,990 --> 01:48:29,760
uh well like you said there were too

2987
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:36,709
this guy john calstrom right now um he

2988
01:48:39,669 --> 01:48:38,000
was the guy who

2989
01:48:41,510 --> 01:48:39,679
was his name

2990
01:48:43,830 --> 01:48:41,520
jim calhoun

2991
01:48:45,910 --> 01:48:43,840
he was the uh oh don't blame us and he

2992
01:48:47,270 --> 01:48:45,920
was the lead guy like on 911 that's

2993
01:48:48,790 --> 01:48:47,280
where he got a lot of face time during

2994
01:48:51,510 --> 01:48:48,800
911 right

2995
01:48:53,030 --> 01:48:51,520
sure did he's now still the fox's terror

2996
01:48:55,109 --> 01:48:53,040
guy you know he's their go-to guy in

2997
01:48:56,149 --> 01:48:55,119
terror so here's the thing is that you

2998
01:48:58,229 --> 01:48:56,159
know

2999
01:49:00,229 --> 01:48:58,239
he was the guy he was out there in the

3000
01:49:02,709 --> 01:49:00,239
lead saying that this was you know the

3001
01:49:05,910 --> 01:49:02,719
fuel tank blah blah blah

3002
01:49:07,830 --> 01:49:05,920
so on and um uh

3003
01:49:09,510 --> 01:49:07,840
he stayed in his job

3004
01:49:10,709 --> 01:49:09,520
right and he went on to let's say bigger

3005
01:49:12,709 --> 01:49:10,719
and better things if you want to call

3006
01:49:15,350 --> 01:49:12,719
face time bigger and better things

3007
01:49:17,669 --> 01:49:15,360
okay i mean has anyone ever like really

3008
01:49:19,350 --> 01:49:17,679
sat this guy down and say

3009
01:49:21,109 --> 01:49:19,360
you know hey listen

3010
01:49:22,950 --> 01:49:21,119
we have evidence here that you know the

3011
01:49:26,070 --> 01:49:22,960
part of the wreckage has lots of holes

3012
01:49:27,350 --> 01:49:26,080
you know it looks like shrapnel okay

3013
01:49:29,510 --> 01:49:27,360
we have lots of people who look at the

3014
01:49:32,070 --> 01:49:29,520
cia cartoon and they think it's great

3015
01:49:34,790 --> 01:49:32,080
but it makes no sense aerodynamically

3016
01:49:36,950 --> 01:49:34,800
okay i mean we have all these witnesses

3017
01:49:38,950 --> 01:49:36,960
people who are veterans you know said

3018
01:49:40,950 --> 01:49:38,960
that's a missile shot we have people who

3019
01:49:43,430 --> 01:49:40,960
are in airplanes other airline pilots

3020
01:49:45,270 --> 01:49:43,440
who you know do not buy this explanation

3021
01:49:47,430 --> 01:49:45,280
has anyone has he ever really been

3022
01:49:49,510 --> 01:49:47,440
grilled is my question no he has not

3023
01:49:50,550 --> 01:49:49,520
good question uh i would love to sit

3024
01:49:52,229 --> 01:49:50,560
down with him

3025
01:49:54,390 --> 01:49:52,239
uh here's what what's interesting i

3026
01:49:55,669 --> 01:49:54,400
think he's the the weak link in the

3027
01:49:57,830 --> 01:49:55,679
whole

3028
01:49:59,750 --> 01:49:57,840
suppression of information chain he

3029
01:50:02,149 --> 01:49:59,760
didn't want to do this

3030
01:50:03,510 --> 01:50:02,159
he was coerced into it i'm not sure i

3031
01:50:05,030 --> 01:50:03,520
talk about in the book what i think that

3032
01:50:06,229 --> 01:50:05,040
the carrot was i don't know about the

3033
01:50:08,070 --> 01:50:06,239
stick

3034
01:50:09,590 --> 01:50:08,080
but

3035
01:50:11,350 --> 01:50:09,600
because he was the public face of the

3036
01:50:13,270 --> 01:50:11,360
investigation he was the families loved

3037
01:50:16,790 --> 01:50:13,280
him and trusted him in the beginning now

3038
01:50:20,229 --> 01:50:16,800
some of them just despise him and um

3039
01:50:22,629 --> 01:50:20,239
they uh on september 11 2001

3040
01:50:25,030 --> 01:50:22,639
he was on with dan rather on one of the

3041
01:50:27,990 --> 01:50:25,040
morning shows while this was happening

3042
01:50:29,590 --> 01:50:28,000
and he blurts out the hypocrisy has got

3043
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:29,600
to end

3044
01:50:32,950 --> 01:50:30,400
you know

3045
01:50:35,189 --> 01:50:32,960
wow and then he catches himself so i am

3046
01:50:37,669 --> 01:50:35,199
not that hypocrisy got us to this place

3047
01:50:40,149 --> 01:50:37,679
no he's a tortured soul he needs to

3048
01:50:42,390 --> 01:50:40,159
confess uh if anyone in massachusetts

3049
01:50:45,189 --> 01:50:42,400
knows jim have him contact me through my

3050
01:50:47,189 --> 01:50:45,199
website wow we'll look for him okay

3051
01:50:48,550 --> 01:50:47,199
but when he gets on the air now what

3052
01:50:50,790 --> 01:50:48,560
happens every now and then they'll trot

3053
01:50:53,189 --> 01:50:50,800
him out to defend the thesis

3054
01:50:54,870 --> 01:50:53,199
you know and he's on the air with like a

3055
01:50:58,390 --> 01:50:54,880
you know someone like uh

3056
01:50:59,590 --> 01:50:58,400
oh uh jake tapper or uh you know uh bill

3057
01:51:01,109 --> 01:50:59,600
hemmer or whatever

3058
01:51:02,470 --> 01:51:01,119
and they don't know anything right true

3059
01:51:04,390 --> 01:51:02,480
and they'll just overwhelm them with

3060
01:51:05,990 --> 01:51:04,400
like bogus information

3061
01:51:07,750 --> 01:51:06,000
i just love to talk to him i'd love to

3062
01:51:09,910 --> 01:51:07,760
sit him down see i think he wants to

3063
01:51:11,830 --> 01:51:09,920
talk jim if you're out there listening

3064
01:51:13,669 --> 01:51:11,840
call me well boy his pension will be

3065
01:51:15,030 --> 01:51:13,679
threatened you know where we got a

3066
01:51:16,870 --> 01:51:15,040
couple minutes here i just want to throw

3067
01:51:18,709 --> 01:51:16,880
out one more question okay and uh it

3068
01:51:20,709 --> 01:51:18,719
seems like we're leaning into like a

3069
01:51:23,109 --> 01:51:20,719
political thing and it seems like you

3070
01:51:24,709 --> 01:51:23,119
know from as you said that the order to

3071
01:51:26,470 --> 01:51:24,719
kind of you know start this whole

3072
01:51:27,990 --> 01:51:26,480
cover-up that the navy shot it down

3073
01:51:29,510 --> 01:51:28,000
accidentally came from the you know

3074
01:51:31,750 --> 01:51:29,520
living quarters of the white house which

3075
01:51:34,310 --> 01:51:31,760
means bill clinton right okay so my

3076
01:51:36,149 --> 01:51:34,320
question is is you know i i i still

3077
01:51:37,589 --> 01:51:36,159
can't believe that they're

3078
01:51:39,589 --> 01:51:37,599
i mean i have to believe that there are

3079
01:51:40,950 --> 01:51:39,599
just many many dozens dozens maybe

3080
01:51:43,430 --> 01:51:40,960
hundreds of people out there who

3081
01:51:45,270 --> 01:51:43,440
actually if this is what happened they

3082
01:51:47,270 --> 01:51:45,280
know what happened so

3083
01:51:48,950 --> 01:51:47,280
now that that okay so you don't want to

3084
01:51:51,430 --> 01:51:48,960
because clinton wants to get reelected

3085
01:51:53,430 --> 01:51:51,440
and so on and so forth but now

3086
01:51:55,430 --> 01:51:53,440
here's hillary clinton running for

3087
01:51:57,589 --> 01:51:55,440
president why doesn't just one person

3088
01:52:00,310 --> 01:51:57,599
come out and say you know what this was

3089
01:52:02,390 --> 01:52:00,320
ginned up by the clintons because it for

3090
01:52:05,350 --> 01:52:02,400
a political reason i mean if someone was

3091
01:52:07,830 --> 01:52:05,360
going to come out and just torpedo her

3092
01:52:09,910 --> 01:52:07,840
candidacy now this would do it why

3093
01:52:11,990 --> 01:52:09,920
doesn't that happen well the one person

3094
01:52:16,070 --> 01:52:12,000
who could do that is jim calstrom and if

3095
01:52:18,790 --> 01:52:16,080
you hear him on fox he is uh openly so

3096
01:52:20,709 --> 01:52:18,800
openly anti-clinton that megyn kelly has

3097
01:52:22,709 --> 01:52:20,719
to pull him back wow you know

3098
01:52:25,270 --> 01:52:22,719
which is very unusual yeah

3099
01:52:26,870 --> 01:52:25,280
so why doesn't he do it i mean but

3100
01:52:28,390 --> 01:52:26,880
the future of the nation in his hands

3101
01:52:30,070 --> 01:52:28,400
okay but there are other people who if

3102
01:52:31,430 --> 01:52:30,080
he knows something then you know his

3103
01:52:33,189 --> 01:52:31,440
secretary knows you know i mean there

3104
01:52:34,790 --> 01:52:33,199
are other people other than him who know

3105
01:52:36,870 --> 01:52:34,800
the truth right and they might have the

3106
01:52:38,550 --> 01:52:36,880
same political meanings as him you know

3107
01:52:40,229 --> 01:52:38,560
wouldn't this be the opportunity unless

3108
01:52:42,149 --> 01:52:40,239
it's going to be an october surprise as

3109
01:52:44,310 --> 01:52:42,159
they say wouldn't this now be the

3110
01:52:46,629 --> 01:52:44,320
opportunity to you know i know people

3111
01:52:49,030 --> 01:52:46,639
really dislike her this would be the way

3112
01:52:50,870 --> 01:52:49,040
to put the the knife in the back

3113
01:52:52,310 --> 01:52:50,880
you're absolutely right well jack what

3114
01:52:53,910 --> 01:52:52,320
about the fact i've written about that

3115
01:52:56,470 --> 01:52:53,920
possibility excuse me what about what

3116
01:52:58,149 --> 01:52:56,480
about the perjuring himself i mean you

3117
01:53:00,390 --> 01:52:58,159
have now people that have gone down a

3118
01:53:02,550 --> 01:53:00,400
path that are going to get caught for

3119
01:53:04,310 --> 01:53:02,560
their testimony that they made

3120
01:53:06,390 --> 01:53:04,320
well you know in fact calcium has tested

3121
01:53:09,270 --> 01:53:06,400
has lied before congress i could point

3122
01:53:10,870 --> 01:53:09,280
out very specifically how how he lied

3123
01:53:12,310 --> 01:53:10,880
and how egregiously alive that's not

3124
01:53:15,270 --> 01:53:12,320
going

3125
01:53:16,709 --> 01:53:15,280
that is that i know is it is that in the

3126
01:53:18,390 --> 01:53:16,719
book yeah being an original

3127
01:53:19,750 --> 01:53:18,400
massachusetts player probably that's not

3128
01:53:22,790 --> 01:53:19,760
going to work he was just calling us and

3129
01:53:26,470 --> 01:53:24,229
here's the thing though is that i would

3130
01:53:28,709 --> 01:53:26,480
i would recommend at this stage because

3131
01:53:31,030 --> 01:53:28,719
the question is who arrests who at this

3132
01:53:32,870 --> 01:53:31,040
stage i would recommend the south africa

3133
01:53:35,109 --> 01:53:32,880
style truth and reconciliation

3134
01:53:36,550 --> 01:53:35,119
commission where you just where no one

3135
01:53:38,950 --> 01:53:36,560
goes to prison right you get these

3136
01:53:41,270 --> 01:53:38,960
people together and we we get the truth

3137
01:53:43,510 --> 01:53:41,280
out finally and yeah that's a good idea

3138
01:53:45,030 --> 01:53:43,520
that's a good idea hey listen jack cash

3139
01:53:46,629 --> 01:53:45,040
really thank you very much for joining

3140
01:53:50,229 --> 01:53:46,639
us tonight thanks so much uh the name of

3141
01:53:51,910 --> 01:53:50,239
the book is twa8 twa 800 the crash the

3142
01:53:53,589 --> 01:53:51,920
cover-up the conspiracy we should also

3143
01:53:55,350 --> 01:53:53,599
point out that this put twa out of

3144
01:53:58,149 --> 01:53:55,360
business frankly right that's it and the

3145
01:53:59,510 --> 01:53:58,159
twa people are still angry to this day i

3146
01:54:02,390 --> 01:53:59,520
speak to them all time i'm speaking at

3147
01:54:04,470 --> 01:54:02,400
the twa museum next month i would say

3148
01:54:06,310 --> 01:54:04,480
also that anyone who has inside

3149
01:54:07,910 --> 01:54:06,320
information or useful information

3150
01:54:11,189 --> 01:54:07,920
contact me through my website at

3151
01:54:15,109 --> 01:54:13,189
as in the rock of casual leading

3152
01:54:16,470 --> 01:54:15,119
monument in ireland by the way so oh

3153
01:54:18,709 --> 01:54:16,480
here we go with the irish stuff again

3154
01:54:20,950 --> 01:54:18,719
the name of the book again is twa 800

3155
01:54:22,550 --> 01:54:20,960
the crash the cover-up the conspiracy

3156
01:54:24,550 --> 01:54:22,560
going to your local bookstores barnes

3157
01:54:26,629 --> 01:54:24,560
and noble bookstore i'm sure that uh

3158
01:54:28,629 --> 01:54:26,639
amazon everywhere but jack's publisher

3159
01:54:30,070 --> 01:54:28,639
wants you to go and buy that in the um

3160
01:54:30,950 --> 01:54:30,080
in the bookstore that's what they feel

3161
01:54:32,790 --> 01:54:30,960
around

3162
01:54:34,070 --> 01:54:32,800
libraries libraries forget about the

3163
01:54:36,229 --> 01:54:34,080
libraries

3164
01:54:37,589 --> 01:54:36,239
amazon.com jack thanks a lot and listen

3165
01:54:39,589 --> 01:54:37,599
if you're here you know if you if you

3166
01:54:41,109 --> 01:54:39,599
come upon any other you know nugget of

3167
01:54:42,629 --> 01:54:41,119
information just give us a buzz okay

3168
01:54:43,750 --> 01:54:42,639
we'll put you on real quick okay you

3169
01:54:45,189 --> 01:54:43,760
guys a lot of fun by the way i really

3170
01:54:46,870 --> 01:54:45,199
enjoyed doing this well we enjoyed it

3171
01:54:48,709 --> 01:54:46,880
too thank you thank you thank you jack

3172
01:54:50,470 --> 01:54:48,719
thanks okay thank you we'll talk to you

3173
01:54:51,910 --> 01:54:50,480
soon okay bye-bye

3174
01:54:54,790 --> 01:54:51,920
well there you go so what we're going to

3175
01:54:56,149 --> 01:54:54,800
do now for the rest of the show gang is

3176
01:54:58,149 --> 01:54:56,159
we're going to go around the table and

3177
01:54:59,589 --> 01:54:58,159
just you know up it down what do you

3178
01:55:01,030 --> 01:54:59,599
think happened okay i'm going to start

3179
01:55:01,830 --> 01:55:01,040
with the commander okay

3180
01:55:04,310 --> 01:55:01,840
okay

3181
01:55:05,750 --> 01:55:04,320
accidental navy shot part of the

3182
01:55:07,030 --> 01:55:05,760
exercise

3183
01:55:08,950 --> 01:55:07,040
cover-up because of the political

3184
01:55:11,669 --> 01:55:08,960
situation that was going on

3185
01:55:13,270 --> 01:55:11,679
why one yeah two i don't know too many

3186
01:55:16,070 --> 01:55:13,280
too many accidents would have to happen

3187
01:55:18,629 --> 01:55:16,080
for in personnel wise to

3188
01:55:21,350 --> 01:55:18,639
launch a missile there's just too much

3189
01:55:22,550 --> 01:55:21,360
going on in the cic and

3190
01:55:25,030 --> 01:55:22,560
fire control i'm not saying it's

3191
01:55:26,390 --> 01:55:25,040
accidental launch i'm saying they were

3192
01:55:28,870 --> 01:55:26,400
shooting missiles as part of the

3193
01:55:31,109 --> 01:55:28,880
exercise and the plane was inadvertently

3194
01:55:33,109 --> 01:55:31,119
uh in the area and took the hit that's

3195
01:55:34,950 --> 01:55:33,119
what i'm saying yeah but it's a military

3196
01:55:37,270 --> 01:55:34,960
exercise in a kind of a densely

3197
01:55:39,189 --> 01:55:37,280
populated airspace

3198
01:55:41,270 --> 01:55:39,199
the exercise was going on we've

3199
01:55:44,229 --> 01:55:41,280
established that tonight i i know it but

3200
01:55:46,709 --> 01:55:44,239
i'm i'm skeptical about the exercise

3201
01:55:48,070 --> 01:55:46,719
going on that's a fact i'm shooting live

3202
01:55:49,910 --> 01:55:48,080
uh stuff and

3203
01:55:52,070 --> 01:55:49,920
shooting live stuff at that that point

3204
01:55:54,470 --> 01:55:52,080
in time okay all right agent x get right

3205
01:55:55,270 --> 01:55:54,480
on that microphone then my friend

3206
01:55:56,310 --> 01:55:55,280
i

3207
01:55:57,990 --> 01:55:56,320
tend to

3208
01:56:00,709 --> 01:55:58,000
i told you before i think it was

3209
01:56:03,990 --> 01:56:00,719
something kinetic i

3210
01:56:06,310 --> 01:56:04,000
tend to agree with juan juan that it's

3211
01:56:09,109 --> 01:56:06,320
one of those things that is just

3212
01:56:11,750 --> 01:56:09,119
too hard to

3213
01:56:14,790 --> 01:56:11,760
to suppress independent of

3214
01:56:17,750 --> 01:56:14,800
pensions and all of that with 200

3215
01:56:19,030 --> 01:56:17,760
including young navy sailors who

3216
01:56:21,109 --> 01:56:19,040
someone will talk

3217
01:56:22,629 --> 01:56:21,119
most part don't give a crap

3218
01:56:26,629 --> 01:56:22,639
and

3219
01:56:29,669 --> 01:56:26,639
i i i was glad to hear that jack

3220
01:56:31,510 --> 01:56:29,679
gave due diligence to the hard-working

3221
01:56:34,149 --> 01:56:31,520
law enforcement uh

3222
01:56:37,430 --> 01:56:34,159
agents forensic analysts

3223
01:56:39,109 --> 01:56:37,440
and uh laura and and other the street

3224
01:56:40,229 --> 01:56:39,119
cops and

3225
01:56:42,709 --> 01:56:40,239
and and

3226
01:56:45,430 --> 01:56:42,719
military people who helped him

3227
01:56:47,750 --> 01:56:45,440
uh and we all realize that those people

3228
01:56:50,310 --> 01:56:47,760
are not necessarily managers nor are

3229
01:56:53,270 --> 01:56:50,320
they public relations specialists

3230
01:56:55,189 --> 01:56:53,280
so yeah i'm just not uh

3231
01:56:56,870 --> 01:56:55,199
jeez i really hope

3232
01:56:58,310 --> 01:56:56,880
it could not have been our own

3233
01:57:00,390 --> 01:56:58,320
government

3234
01:57:02,470 --> 01:57:00,400
right i mean that's how i feel i i just

3235
01:57:04,149 --> 01:57:02,480
think uh as we were saying wanwan said

3236
01:57:05,109 --> 01:57:04,159
and you said is that

3237
01:57:07,589 --> 01:57:05,119
there's

3238
01:57:10,070 --> 01:57:07,599
it would just be once again it's in this

3239
01:57:11,750 --> 01:57:10,080
the times we live in i just think if

3240
01:57:15,990 --> 01:57:11,760
somebody knew if somebody had the

3241
01:57:17,830 --> 01:57:16,000
smoking gun said listen this was

3242
01:57:19,669 --> 01:57:17,840
you know a mistake by the navy but

3243
01:57:21,109 --> 01:57:19,679
clinton you know ordered them not to say

3244
01:57:22,629 --> 01:57:21,119
anything and everyone's got to shut up

3245
01:57:24,149 --> 01:57:22,639
everyone's got to you know

3246
01:57:26,390 --> 01:57:24,159
be aware of their pensions as you just

3247
01:57:28,149 --> 01:57:26,400
said some guys in the navy for you know

3248
01:57:30,790 --> 01:57:28,159
three years i mean you know

3249
01:57:32,790 --> 01:57:30,800
because who cares you know exactly so

3250
01:57:34,070 --> 01:57:32,800
bust me so here's the but here's the

3251
01:57:35,750 --> 01:57:34,080
question is

3252
01:57:37,189 --> 01:57:35,760
what happened

3253
01:57:38,950 --> 01:57:37,199
you know we've talked about this now for

3254
01:57:40,310 --> 01:57:38,960
two hours you know what happened what

3255
01:57:43,830 --> 01:57:40,320
could have happened

3256
01:57:45,589 --> 01:57:43,840
this is not the the gas tank exploding i

3257
01:57:47,430 --> 01:57:45,599
don't know anything about aviation but

3258
01:57:49,510 --> 01:57:47,440
that to me seems to be the least

3259
01:57:51,669 --> 01:57:49,520
unlikely i'm sure there's forensics

3260
01:57:54,070 --> 01:57:51,679
experts that have combed through all the

3261
01:57:55,830 --> 01:57:54,080
wreckage and dusted it for fingerprints

3262
01:57:58,470 --> 01:57:55,840
fingerprints from the

3263
01:57:59,990 --> 01:57:58,480
from the weapon

3264
01:58:01,109 --> 01:58:00,000
the contents of the weapon whatever it

3265
01:58:02,709 --> 01:58:01,119
might be

3266
01:58:04,870 --> 01:58:02,719
that should be

3267
01:58:07,270 --> 01:58:04,880
should have adhered to

3268
01:58:09,510 --> 01:58:07,280
tons of the parts that were on the plane

3269
01:58:12,070 --> 01:58:09,520
right so i'm thinking

3270
01:58:13,030 --> 01:58:12,080
what was that material

3271
01:58:14,950 --> 01:58:13,040
was it

3272
01:58:17,830 --> 01:58:14,960
uh specific to

3273
01:58:19,990 --> 01:58:17,840
something we own or was it specific to

3274
01:58:23,109 --> 01:58:20,000
one of those one of the armaments that

3275
01:58:24,229 --> 01:58:23,119
asian x mentioned foreign

3276
01:58:26,470 --> 01:58:24,239
uh

3277
01:58:28,229 --> 01:58:26,480
you know where's that evidence so you

3278
01:58:30,390 --> 01:58:28,239
you gentlemen somehow see that there's

3279
01:58:32,310 --> 01:58:30,400
some kind of chain of evidence here that

3280
01:58:35,350 --> 01:58:32,320
that that question and that statement

3281
01:58:36,950 --> 01:58:35,360
has some possibility of being in reality

3282
01:58:38,470 --> 01:58:36,960
which you're telling me that you after

3283
01:58:40,470 --> 01:58:38,480
everything we've just talked about for

3284
01:58:42,550 --> 01:58:40,480
two hours you think that if there were

3285
01:58:45,589 --> 01:58:42,560
fingerprints there oh that's going to

3286
01:58:48,950 --> 01:58:45,599
rise up 140 plus witnesses are

3287
01:58:50,629 --> 01:58:48,960
suppressed why an agency that has no

3288
01:58:52,950 --> 01:58:50,639
valid right well then then we have

3289
01:58:55,430 --> 01:58:52,960
nowhere to go

3290
01:58:57,270 --> 01:58:55,440
has no valid reason to be in this draws

3291
01:58:59,430 --> 01:58:57,280
a great cartoon

3292
01:59:01,830 --> 01:58:59,440
a disney quality cartoon that convinces

3293
01:59:03,990 --> 01:59:01,840
everybody then they go and say well we

3294
01:59:06,310 --> 01:59:04,000
think it might be a bomb now we thought

3295
01:59:09,270 --> 01:59:06,320
it was the tank it's definitely not the

3296
01:59:11,430 --> 01:59:09,280
missile and it's probably a bomb now

3297
01:59:13,350 --> 01:59:11,440
well then we're at a dead end then come

3298
01:59:15,750 --> 01:59:13,360
on we're at a dead end yeah because even

3299
01:59:17,350 --> 01:59:15,760
if you go by that then we'll never find

3300
01:59:19,510 --> 01:59:17,360
out even if you want to put the finger

3301
01:59:21,510 --> 01:59:19,520
the the clinton fingerprint on it why is

3302
01:59:22,870 --> 01:59:21,520
all these people in the cia and jim

3303
01:59:25,270 --> 01:59:22,880
calstrom and all these people who are

3304
01:59:27,350 --> 01:59:25,280
now on fox or aunt why why would they

3305
01:59:29,750 --> 01:59:27,360
stick by their story if it was uh you

3306
01:59:32,229 --> 01:59:29,760
know clinton ordered it to be done

3307
01:59:33,910 --> 01:59:32,239
someone would talk

3308
01:59:34,950 --> 01:59:33,920
more than one person would talk if that

3309
01:59:37,189 --> 01:59:34,960
was the case

3310
01:59:39,030 --> 01:59:37,199
there is a difference between that and

3311
01:59:40,390 --> 01:59:39,040
between kay's assassination we don't

3312
01:59:42,229 --> 01:59:40,400
even know what happened on lincoln's

3313
01:59:45,030 --> 01:59:42,239
assassination stuff don't come out in

3314
01:59:46,470 --> 01:59:45,040
world war ii but oh this one everybody's

3315
01:59:48,790 --> 01:59:46,480
going to jump up and tell us the truth

3316
01:59:50,950 --> 01:59:48,800
in this one all you need is one agent x

3317
01:59:52,070 --> 01:59:50,960
please no i'm just going to say

3318
01:59:53,750 --> 01:59:52,080
there is a

3319
01:59:55,430 --> 01:59:53,760
get to that mic stop turning your head

3320
01:59:57,669 --> 01:59:55,440
and get to that sorry sorry sorry it's

3321
02:00:00,629 --> 01:59:57,679
time to look at you

3322
02:00:04,950 --> 02:00:00,639
there is a difference between um

3323
02:00:08,229 --> 02:00:04,960
saying that a navy destroyer or a fairly

3324
02:00:10,070 --> 02:00:08,239
uh a fairly well-populated u.s

3325
02:00:12,629 --> 02:00:10,080
government ship

3326
02:00:13,669 --> 02:00:12,639
was totally involved in doing this

3327
02:00:16,550 --> 02:00:13,679
and

3328
02:00:19,990 --> 02:00:16,560
saying that it happened

3329
02:00:21,669 --> 02:00:20,000
for some kinetic reason and i don't know

3330
02:00:24,470 --> 02:00:21,679
what that is

3331
02:00:26,390 --> 02:00:24,480
and given the geopolitical situation at

3332
02:00:30,709 --> 02:00:26,400
the time

3333
02:00:33,270 --> 02:00:30,719
i i and and the variances of altitude

3334
02:00:35,270 --> 02:00:33,280
and capabilities and what had happened

3335
02:00:38,070 --> 02:00:35,280
in the previous 10 years

3336
02:00:40,310 --> 02:00:38,080
i i just think that i would hope is more

3337
02:00:42,310 --> 02:00:40,320
likely

3338
02:00:44,310 --> 02:00:42,320
wow well you know it's been a

3339
02:00:45,430 --> 02:00:44,320
fascinating two hours but

3340
02:00:47,109 --> 02:00:45,440
it looks like we're gonna have to do

3341
02:00:48,790 --> 02:00:47,119
another show

3342
02:00:51,510 --> 02:00:48,800
you know maybe in a year otherwise it

3343
02:00:53,109 --> 02:00:51,520
may come to fisticuffs yes right

3344
02:00:55,430 --> 02:00:53,119
what's interesting about commander cobra

3345
02:00:57,030 --> 02:00:55,440
is that he's really uh you know he's

3346
02:00:58,149 --> 02:00:57,040
dialed in he's dialed in when he's in

3347
02:01:00,629 --> 02:00:58,159
the other room i think that's

3348
02:01:02,790 --> 02:01:00,639
interesting uh i hear wedding bells uh

3349
02:01:05,189 --> 02:01:02,800
he's married to

3350
02:01:06,950 --> 02:01:05,199
all of this and i am in a way but it

3351
02:01:08,709 --> 02:01:06,960
just drives me crazy

3352
02:01:10,870 --> 02:01:08,719
that uh

3353
02:01:12,310 --> 02:01:10,880
there isn't a little bit more forensic

3354
02:01:13,910 --> 02:01:12,320
evidence right let's just be that one

3355
02:01:16,470 --> 02:01:13,920
little um you know we got all these

3356
02:01:17,669 --> 02:01:16,480
eyewitnesses we got uh witness 364 the

3357
02:01:18,550 --> 02:01:17,679
marine

3358
02:01:20,950 --> 02:01:18,560
uh

3359
02:01:22,149 --> 02:01:20,960
crew chief for a helicopter squadron you

3360
02:01:23,910 --> 02:01:22,159
know what happened to him what happened

3361
02:01:25,910 --> 02:01:23,920
to all these witnesses that have been

3362
02:01:27,589 --> 02:01:25,920
uh they're all

3363
02:01:29,189 --> 02:01:27,599
they're all uh in the witness protection

3364
02:01:30,870 --> 02:01:29,199
program in lilly hammer well even if

3365
02:01:33,350 --> 02:01:30,880
they were paid off let's say they're

3366
02:01:35,189 --> 02:01:33,360
paid off okay

3367
02:01:36,550 --> 02:01:35,199
sharing a joke in between

3368
02:01:38,390 --> 02:01:36,560
even if they were paid off once again

3369
02:01:39,830 --> 02:01:38,400
they would they'd be at least one person

3370
02:01:41,270 --> 02:01:39,840
would blow through that money at the

3371
02:01:43,109 --> 02:01:41,280
racetrack or something and then need

3372
02:01:44,709 --> 02:01:43,119
more and come and try to get more you

3373
02:01:46,709 --> 02:01:44,719
know and you just don't see evidence of

3374
02:01:48,390 --> 02:01:46,719
that anyway hey listen i want to thank

3375
02:01:49,270 --> 02:01:48,400
everyone for joining us tonight i want

3376
02:01:51,589 --> 02:01:49,280
to thank

3377
02:01:53,669 --> 02:01:51,599
um rob beckhausen of walrus morning who

3378
02:01:55,510 --> 02:01:53,679
talked to us about if it was a weapon

3379
02:01:57,350 --> 02:01:55,520
what kind of a weapon would it be

3380
02:01:58,709 --> 02:01:57,360
switchblade steve ward up there in

3381
02:02:00,629 --> 02:01:58,719
battle creek michigan near where they

3382
02:02:02,550 --> 02:02:00,639
make the conflicts talking about

3383
02:02:04,229 --> 02:02:02,560
incredibly a ufo connection to this

3384
02:02:05,430 --> 02:02:04,239
which you know i guess i shouldn't be

3385
02:02:08,790 --> 02:02:05,440
surprised

3386
02:02:10,470 --> 02:02:08,800
by but i am uh thank you to agent x for

3387
02:02:12,709 --> 02:02:10,480
joining us tonight and giving us thumbs

3388
02:02:15,109 --> 02:02:12,719
up thumbs down on what the intelligence

3389
02:02:16,709 --> 02:02:15,119
agency's take might be on this

3390
02:02:17,990 --> 02:02:16,719
uh one one thank you for joining us

3391
02:02:20,310 --> 02:02:18,000
you're welcome enjoyed every minute of

3392
02:02:23,030 --> 02:02:20,320
it and commander cobra of course

3393
02:02:24,950 --> 02:02:23,040
thank you for leading us through this

3394
02:02:26,709 --> 02:02:24,960
leading us to this swamp

3395
02:02:28,310 --> 02:02:26,719
fog or something i think we're gonna

3396
02:02:32,229 --> 02:02:28,320
have to pay the buy the drinks for him

3397
02:02:36,550 --> 02:02:34,390
one thing i want our listeners to really

3398
02:02:38,709 --> 02:02:36,560
pound this particular show on the i'd

3399
02:02:40,350 --> 02:02:38,719
like to hear from them what they think

3400
02:02:42,709 --> 02:02:40,360
folks that listen to us on

3401
02:02:44,629 --> 02:02:42,719
operationdistantthunder gmail.com i'd

3402
02:02:46,229 --> 02:02:44,639
like to get a tally of what what they're

3403
02:02:47,830 --> 02:02:46,239
thinking right right i mean where are we

3404
02:02:49,270 --> 02:02:47,840
at let's get some interactions i want

3405
02:02:51,350 --> 02:02:49,280
some definite feedback on this here's

3406
02:02:53,189 --> 02:02:51,360
the question was it an accident

3407
02:02:55,430 --> 02:02:53,199
or did the navy do it and it was a

3408
02:02:57,430 --> 02:02:55,440
cover-up that's really the only two you

3409
02:02:58,870 --> 02:02:57,440
know really weighted items we can talk

3410
02:03:01,109 --> 02:02:58,880
about i think we've dispensed with the

3411
02:03:02,790 --> 02:03:01,119
terrorist thing i think you're right

3412
02:03:04,629 --> 02:03:02,800
maybe not okay and

3413
02:03:05,830 --> 02:03:04,639
we can dispense with the navy doing it

3414
02:03:07,990 --> 02:03:05,840
on purpose

3415
02:03:10,550 --> 02:03:08,000
yes i think so yeah absolutely right

3416
02:03:11,430 --> 02:03:10,560
okay okay so well let us know what you